Message: 1 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:15:32 +0100 From: Paul Reed <paulreed@paddedcell.com> To: oberon@inf.ethz.ch Subject: [Oberon] Narrow Displays and Oberon Language Reply-To: oberon@inf.ethz.ch

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From: GitM

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The OS is not ONLY about exercising the hardware. It is also about communication with the USER.

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From: "Thomas Frey" <frey@inf.ethz.ch> Therefore the original Ceres workstation had a 1024x800 display resolution

Thomas, I totally agree with you. As I've said, I have a Ceres 3 on my desk and its monitor is a modified Moniterm VCX1000 manufactured in Minnetonka, MN, in the US of A way back in March 1990.

I'm trying to start at the FOUNDATIONS that ETH Obern established with the release of Native/Beta. I am not trying to impress you or any other person on this elist What you haven't noticed is that I do have an installed Native/Beta on another machine with the 1024x768 display. I have 5 computers with Oberon installed on two of them. I have ETH Oberon Native/Beta, ETH W31 Oberon 3, Linz Oberon V4 all installed here in front of me. I also have access to an 800mhz with a 19" screen and I've never even bothered to find out what it's maximum display capabilities are as yet. Now tell me one more time about your wonderful monitor.

My guess is that the monitors cost ETH more than each Ceres, anyone from ETH in that era care to comment? :)

Ask me if anyone really cares about Ceres hardware?

The point is, it's a 21" screen, and Oberon's beautifully crisp and clear at 1024x768 (viewable area 17").

No, it's not "crisp and clear". It's useable like most any other GUI interface would be. It could be better if anyone really cared at all in any way to make it better.

The first time I got the same experience with other hardware that I could afford was last year, when I bought a Sony VAIO with a really nice 1024x768 TFT display (tape measure again: 14" viewable area).

Notice the word "afford"? Do you not care what others can afford? Are you an elist bourgeoise who thinks the peasants should fend for themselves? Are college students wealthy now and can buy anything dictated to them by the software required by the courses they chose to enroll in? Microsoft thinks this way and everyone hates them for it.

I think this demonstrates how far Wirth and Gutknecht were ahead of their time, and so it is understandable that they didn't feel the need to pander to the conventions being tentatively established on how GUIs should work - it was far from a foregone conclusion!

As has widely been observed, departing the "bandwagon trail" allowed them to simplify greatly the way the whole system worked. For some people, it's too simple (like not having columns, or overloading the mouse instead of having to remember keyboard shortcuts).

You are attempting to evangelize two men who built a system for their personal use. Anyone building a single user system would customize it to their own personal habits. This wasn't a crusade it was just how people are. Human nature.

But although I have made great efforts to adapt Oberon to legacy hardware (e.g. narrower displays), I view these adaptations as "specialist applications" and I wouldn't expect the maintainers of ETH Oberon to be particularly worried about them (I hope you're reading this Pieter :]).

Yes, as long as it works on YOUR hardware it should remain as it is. A great philosophy if you want there to be only a few dozen Oberon users.

I sympathise with people's desires to make Oberon run on diverse hardware (because I do it myself) but it is impossible to do this without cutting at the very heart of the design principles which make Oberon great.

An inability to do columns with the default font is not "great" it is absurd. Lack of word-wrap is not "great" it is an oversight. Menu bars that disappear offscreen look like a hack-job.

It strikes me that taking a system like Native Oberon and trying to make it usable on 640x480 is like trying to make a motorbike by sawing a car in half.

It srikes me as elitism and arrogance to say that. Charles Angelich The Ghost in the Machine! DOS and W31 Tech website: http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost Stories, poems, music, and photos website: http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/faf