Re: [Oberon] Re (2): Project Oberon: New Edition
Some ideas on HCI: we techies overlook it's importance; which is demonstarted by stupid notation like "a better experience". What's that ? It needs to be analysed. There's a Swiss HCI specialist who AFAIK is/was associated with ETHO. Focus on the human psychology, not the computer hardware. Although we all differ, some basic evolved human attributes are: short-term memory limited to ca. 3 items; recognision is mot limited by memory. This automatically leads to the menu-concept, which TUI has. We all learned to read and are forced to exercise it in daily life, so menu-items are conveniently: recognisable test-strings. Lifting your arm to point to a screen, is only for short/baby tasks. Perhaps with mobile-devices you can rest your arm. Although the reflexive chording-at-the-mouse position can't be equaled, probably <verb> <noun>...<noun> notation can be efficient. Many tasks can use this. Like: verb:ReplaceAllUntilNextVerb To From1 ...FromN But can mobile devices conveniently/accurately select a text-stretch? ---------------- The other essential capability, where ETHO excels is multiple files simultaneously visible/accessible. Most non-trival tasks needs 4,5,6 files visible/accessible at once. == Chris Glur. On 12/22/13, peasthope@shaw.ca <peasthope@shaw.ca> wrote:
Claudio and everyone,
From: Claudio Nieder <private@claudio.ch> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 02:40:43 +0100
... unnecessary fragmentation.
Yes, fragmentation is probably the biggest obstacle to efficient use of computing.
Some people on this list care mostly about the TUI and are happy having that with any other kind of OS running beneath of it. Others might even hate the TUI because the mouse-interclicks cannot be translated to touch screens ...
There is a very simple and effective way of integrating the familiar Oberon TUI with the gestural touchscreen approach. The result, I believe, is more powerful than any extant interface.
I have a description of this interface and am working on a prototypical implementation. To avoid pre-emption of the ideas by commercial interests, details have not yet been published.
Best Regards, ... Peter E.
-- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 Bcc: peasthope at shaw.ca http://carnot.yi.org/
-- Oberon@lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
-----Original Message----- From: eas lab [mailto:lab.eas@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, 28 December 2013 9:43 AM To: ETH Oberon and related systems Subject: Re: [Oberon] Re (2): Project Oberon: New Edition
Focus on the human psychology, not the computer hardware. Although we all differ, some basic evolved human attributes are: short-term memory limited to ca. 3 items; recognision is mot limited by memory. This automatically leads to the menu-concept, which TUI has.
I think you'll find that the short-term memory item number is closer to 7-8 items. 8-digit telephone numbers are pushing the limit. Using words can be a way of allowing you to remember more data. As a quick demo how long does it take you to memorise the phone number: 628-483-623766 Now how much easier is it to remember: NATIVE OBERON - where each letter is mapped to a number via your telephone keypad. Memory tricksters take this concept even further e.g. by using the brain's word-association abilities to map a story onto the sequence of cards in a deck of cards. A book that I have recommended previously for those interested in the design of man-machine interfaces was written by Alan Cooper (the "Father of Visual Basic"). It is titled "The Inmates are Running the Asylum - Why High-Tech Products Drive Us Crazy and How to Restore the Sanity" ISBN 0-672-31649-8 Sams Publishing. I also recommend "The Zen of Palm - Designing products for Palm OS". I can no longer find its original location but a Google search will find copies for you, Regards, Chris Chris Burrows CFB Software http://www.astrobe.com
Focus on the human psychology, not the computer hardware. [...] The other essential capability, where ETHO excels is multiple files simultaneously visible/accessible.
Most non-trival tasks needs 4,5,6 files visible/accessible at once.
Not focusing on the human psychology though, are they?
But can mobile devices conveniently/accurately select a text-stretch?
I copied the above text stretches on an iPad by pointing and dragging my finger. Not as easy as a mouse, but easy enough, and I still recall the difficulty of learning to manipulate the mouse, back in the 80s. Have you ever carried out any usability tests on your ideas with other people? It can be a humiliating experience, but it's essential for any user interface designer. B
On 28 Dec 2013, at 00:12, eas lab <lab.eas@gmail.com> wrote:
Some ideas on HCI: we techies overlook it's importance; which is demonstarted by stupid notation like "a better experience". What's that ? It needs to be analysed.
There's a Swiss HCI specialist who AFAIK is/was associated with ETHO.
Focus on the human psychology, not the computer hardware. Although we all differ, some basic evolved human attributes are: short-term memory limited to ca. 3 items; recognision is mot limited by memory. This automatically leads to the menu-concept, which TUI has.
We all learned to read and are forced to exercise it in daily life, so menu-items are conveniently: recognisable test-strings.
Lifting your arm to point to a screen, is only for short/baby tasks.
Perhaps with mobile-devices you can rest your arm.
Although the reflexive chording-at-the-mouse position can't be equaled, probably <verb> <noun>...<noun> notation can be efficient. Many tasks can use this. Like: verb:ReplaceAllUntilNextVerb To From1 ...FromN
But can mobile devices conveniently/accurately select a text-stretch? ---------------- The other essential capability, where ETHO excels is multiple files simultaneously visible/accessible.
Most non-trival tasks needs 4,5,6 files visible/accessible at once. == Chris Glur.
]> short-term memory limited to ca. 3 items; recognision is not limited by ]> memory. ]> This automatically leads to the menu-concept, which TUI has.
I think you'll find that the short-term memory item number is closer to 7-8 items. 8-digit telephone numbers are pushing the limit.
That's not short-term-memory, like 6 names flashing past in 10 seconds.
A book that I have recommended previously for those interested in the design of man-machine interfaces was written by Alan Cooper (the "Father of Visual Basic").
I often wanted to see if 'visual-basic' confirms my claims. ]> Most non-trival tasks needs 4,5,6 files visible/accessible at once.
Not focusing on the human psychology though, are they?
Who 'they'? The tasks? The <potential> tasks emerge spontaneously via entropy. eg. my new kick is not to read big-complex texts; but to lie down and listen to TextToSpeech when I'm tired. So far I'm using a 6v-Acco powered rPi, where the sole control to (remove-from-stack or demote-to-later-play) the *.wav files is the on/off-switch, switched during the applicable prompt. When I put new sound-files on the play-stack and clean-out old ones, I need to see: the play-stack, the source-text, the corresponding sound-file all together on the same screen; plus the menu of applicable commands. If I lose sight for 1 second to switch views, chaos ensues! Training yourself to do repetative tasks is not, the same as having the tools to handle a new complex task. The fact that the PC market gravitated to monster-browsers which do: http-fetch, mail, USEnet, and display various formats so that all facilities are 'at hand', confirms that people can't be expected to remember where stuff is saved. But the monster-app approach is wrong for serious computing. The correct order of importance is: you, your knowledge, your data, your file system, your utiltiy/s=last. The utilities need to be able to roam around your file system, like the secretary used to visit the filing cabinets. If the secretary dies/utility-is-replaced, your data still survives. LEO is especially good for this. You can navigate your file-tree eg. via the VISUAL/TUI mc [clone of the DOS:nc], and then launch a new LEO at the appropriate directory, which contains the emails, articles, diagrams..etc., for that specific project. But of course, entropy ensures that other files outside of the directory of the project will need to be accessed, and seen together on the SAME-screen, which LEO handles too. Or if it's a simple task, you can launch a new LEO <from the canteen, where he's having his lunch, and he can reach out to all the dir-nodes needed, from there>, which is what linux-based:V4 does.
From chris at cfbsoftware.com Sat Dec 28 01:35:48 2013 A book that I have recommended previously for those interested in the design of man-machine interfaces was written by Alan Cooper (the "Father of Visual Basic"). It is titled "The Inmates are Running the Asylum - Why High-Tech Products Drive Us Crazy and How to Restore the Sanity" ISBN 0-672-31649-8 Sams Publishing.
Thanks. Via http://www.abebooks.com/ purchased a copy from Green Earth Books in Portland, Oregon for less than 8 dollars, price+postage. Just noticed that there was a second edition. This is probably the first. Interesting reading. Hopefully some of the conditions described have improved since it was written.
I also recommend "The Zen of Palm - Designing products for Palm OS". I can no longer find its original location but a Google search will find copies for you,
Googling "The Zen of Palm - Designing products for Palm OS" gives nothing but citations of your citation! Google hasn't put it in their electronic library? In any case, my idea is nothing too special. Enhance the good aspects of the Oberon TUI and remove dependence on less efficient aspects. Thanks for the references, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://carnot.yi.org/ Bcc: peter at easthope. ca
Hi
I also recommend "The Zen of Palm - Designing products for Palm OS". I can no longer find its original location but a Google search will find copies for you,
Googling "The Zen of Palm - Designing products for Palm OS" gives nothing but citations of your citation! Google hasn't put it in their electronic library?
http://www.cs.uml.edu/~fredm/courses/91.308-fall05/palm/zenofpalm.pdf Jörg
participants (5)
-
Bob Walkden -
Chris Burrows -
eas lab -
Jörg Straube -
peter＠easthope.ca