Are you making the code available [for beta testers]. Yes. In the process now of deciding where to host it. Thinking seriously about SourceForge. Perhaps an "Oberon Sys 3 enhancements" project? I thought about pasting the new code (about 139 lines) to the Wiki, but I wasn't sure if that was appropriate. At least it should work :-) So if you like you can try it. OTOH after months of being occupied with other more pressing matters I started my WebDAV server on webdav.ethz.ch again. And I will have look into the problems there are. The difficult part is that I fear that these are not WebDAV but TCP/IP/HTTP
BTW is 'WebNavigator' usefull for local files ? It sounds like being intended for inet searching ?
WebNavigator is an HTML 4.0 web browser. (Think "Netscape Navigator".) It was a student project. I recall the author asking for help with it some time back, but I don't know if anyone ever responded. Anyway the parser works pretty good (I've used it in a project at work to parse HTML output from a statistics program), and it renders some pages nicely, but it needs a lot of work. In some ways the HTML 2.0 parser that comes with Oberon is more sophisticated since it can handle forms. (WebNavigator can't handle Google for instance, but the built in HTML 2.0 parser can). Incidently this means that WebNavigator currently can't handle editing the Wiki either. Unfortunately the HTML 2.0 browser doesn't seem to be able to handle the Wiki either. You can edit a page but your edits don't get saved. I wonder if this has something to do with Oberon's weak (practically non existent) support for cookies? Bad news :-( But I don't think it's possible for the (very small) Oberon community to provide a better browser. Even if it's perhaps not giving many academic laurels I think that an OS which hasn't at least some decent capabilities for browsing the Web doesn't have a great appeal to new people. So I can only beg ETH to invest some energy e.g. to integrate the good stuff from WebNavigator (Some support for
Anyway Google does support XMLRPC. And since we have an XMLRPC client it should be possible to build a Google search client in Oberon. I saw that you tried to upload XMLRPC.Mod to webdav.ethz.ch and that you didn't succeed. The file only has 512 bytes and half of them are junk. I assume that there are still problems somewhere in TCP/IP which are probably also the cause of the FTP problems discussed recently. AFAIK there was a major rewrite of the Aos TCP/IP and this wasn't simple. Even when upload from Aos worked also for files of more than e.g. 50K I had
John Drake <jmdrake_98@yahoo.com> problems. frames and CSS) into the standard browser. A decent browser is basic stuff nowadays which is expected of an OS of any value. Or what about a WINE for Oberon ? I just installed it on my Debian today to see what it's capable of. problems with uploading files of this size from NO. So is there any hope that NOs TCP/IP will be fixed to work with Aos (Assuming for now that it has a problem) ? Having finished some other things I problably will have a closer look at WebDAV again the next weeks. Cheers, Edgar
--- edgar@edgarschwarz.de wrote:
John Drake <jmdrake_98@yahoo.com>
Wiki, but I wasn't sure if that was appropriate. At least it should work :-) So if you like you can try it.
Yeah. I had actually pasted the code there at first but then thought "is the the best way to use a Wiki"? I dunno. It's not that much code relatively speaking (I was only pasting the two new procedures that I had written and a new module).
OTOH after months of being occupied with other more pressing matters I started my WebDAV server on webdav.ethz.ch again. And I will have look into the problems there are. The difficult part is that I fear that these are not WebDAV but TCP/IP/HTTP problems.
Good! Glad to see progress on this again.
Bad news :-( But I don't think it's possible for the (very small) Oberon community to provide a better browser. Even if it's perhaps not giving many academic laurels I think that an OS which hasn't at least some decent capabilities for browsing the Web doesn't have a great appeal to new people. So I can only beg ETH to invest some energy e.g. to integrate the good stuff from WebNavigator (Some support for frames and CSS) into the standard browser.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that. Back when Juice was a possible alternative to Java I made some suggestions to Michael Franz on ways to make it more viable. (Such as porting the plugin to Linux, providing more Slim Binary backends than just x86, 68K and PPC or making it easier for others to port this, GUI support ect.) He told me these were all good ideas but that they weren't "accademically interesting". And yes, Dr. Franz is at UCI rather than ETH, but I seem the same thing there at Linz also. There are a lot of good products (Lola, Oberon-D, Switcherland) that are at a "really nice, but not being actively developed" state. Anyway I wouldn't discount the Oberon community just because of it's small size. Programming teams of a few programmers have written decent browsers. You did a decent job on WebDAV all by your lonesome. The Oberon System 3 community itself will need to come together and do some things. I think the problem of extending the Web browser is doable if we work out a few logistics. (Source stored as ASCII or as Text. Project hosted at ETH or at SourceForge. Project managed by WebDAV or CVS). Perhaps a successful colaborative project could finally spur more of a general colaboration spirit that's so desperately needed by this small community?
A decent browser is basic stuff nowadays which is expected of an OS of any value. Or what about a WINE for Oberon ? I just installed it on my Debian today to see what it's capable of.
Hmmmm...size wise comparing Oberon to Windows to me is like comparing a compact pickup to a tractor trailer. I can better visualize a tractor trailer carring a pickup than I can a pickup pulling a tractor trailer. In other words I think the best "Windows/Oberon" enviornment is the currect solution of hosting Windows on top of Oberon rather than trying to host Oberon on top of Windows. I do recall someone at ETH once saying that they used VNC to access a Netscape browser as their browsing solution. (That still seems cludgy to me). I think it would be more realistic to port the Java AWT to Oberon. BlueBottle can already support the Java VM. If we had AWT support than Oberon could run one of the myriad of Java web browser there are out there, including "Amaya" which is available from the w3c organization.
Anyway Google does support XMLRPC. And since we have an XMLRPC client it should be possible to build a Google search client in Oberon. I saw that you tried to upload XMLRPC.Mod to webdav.ethz.ch and that you didn't succeed. The file only has 512 bytes and half of them are junk. I assume that there are still problems somewhere in TCP/IP which are probably also the cause of the FTP problems discussed recently.
I had forgotten about that! Well I tried to upload again today. (Using MS Explorer "web folders" this time). I got to 1.2K! (The file is actually 5K). Still that's progress. ;) Then I went back to Win Aos. It took 3 attempts, but I got it up! Attempt 1: 512 bytes Attempt 2: 4K then garbage Attempt 3: 5K and fine! That reminds me. I reported earlier to this list that I was having problems connecting to the Internet using Win Aos from behind the firewall at work. Well I still can't hit the net from my desktop machine (Win 2K) but I can hit it fine from a personal laptop (Win ME). This is just strange, but I'm glad it's at least somewhat working. I'm not sure at this point if it's an operating system issue or simply some strange configuration issue. If anyone else here is using Win Aos on a Win2K machine from behind a firewall please let me know. Oh, side note. It seems that Google has stopped supporting XMLRPC and is now only supporting SOAP. (I can't even ping the Google XMLRPC server) Bummer! And I found this out after I got the interface for the Google client to clean compile. Double bummer! Anyway I made some improvements to the XMLRPC code in the process so it wasn't a total waste. I guess an Oberon Google client will have to wait for the BlueBottle SOAP package. I know the XO/2 system has a SOAP package. Has anybody else here looked into this? What would it take to get this running under BlueBottle or NO? http://www.xo2.org/Pages/download.html Regards, John M. Drake __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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