Paul: is there any chance for a book "Advanced Compiler Construction with RISC5"? It would describe the real world compiler which we are dealing with, plus techniques which Andreas is using to extend, modify, and enhance its operation. W.

Chris:

Yes indeed! It already exists. Refer to the Project Oberon book which you can download from the Project Oberon site:

Yes, thank you!

I would have thought Andreas would be the most appropriate person to document his techniques?

Of course! It would be absolutely wonderful to order his book(s) from Amazon! Wojtek

-----Original Message----- From: Oberon [mailto:oberon-bounces@lists.inf.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Paul Reed Sent: Monday, 11 January 2021 3:34 AM To: ETH Oberon and related systems Subject: Re: [Oberon] _Compiler_Construction_ by Niklaus Wirth

On 2021-01-10 16:10, peter@easthope.ca wrote:

...

Appears the copy posted at 43.09 US$ was sold that day...

On http://www.projectoberon.com I've now mirrored Prof. Wirth's two PDFs for Compiler Construction as a single PDF, so it can be more easily submitted to a book-printing service. Direct link is:

http://www.projectoberon.net/wirth/CompilerConstruction/CompilerConst ruction.pdf

Enjoy, Paul

Thanks. I've just re-read Hanspeter Mössenböck's article: "Compiler Construction - The Art of Niklaus Wirth". The abstract states: "This paper tries to collect some general principles behind his work. It is not a paper about new compilation techniques but a reflection about Wirth's way to write compilers." It has many useful tips for prospective compiler designers / writers / maintainers and answers many questions of the type "Why did he do it that way?". You can download a copy from: https://ssw.jku.at/Research/Papers/Moe00b.html It was also published as a chapter in the book: The School of Niklaus Wirth - The Art of Simplicity: https://www.elsevier.com/books/the-school-of-niklaus-wirth/boszormenyi/978-0 -08-057418-9 or https://www.tinyurl.com/1jnwivbg Regards, Chris Burrows CFB Software http://www.astrobe.com/RISC5

On 2021-08-11 01:38, Colby Russell wrote:

Any chance that the paper ... (Building Your Own Tools: An Oberon Industrial Case-Study) could be added [to http://projectoberon.com, or] ..."An Oberon Linker for an Imperfect World – More Notes on Building Your Own Tools")?

Hi again Colby, Thanks for your interest, yeah it would be nice to but unfortunately not. In those days, Springer kindly published the proceedings of the JMLC conferences, and required transfer of copyright, so they own it. I note from duckduckgo that the dead-tree and electronic versions of the books are still available to purchase online. The references to my papers are below, but I was pleasantly surprised, the entire volumes are not prohibitively priced (in contrast to some academic publishing I've seen!) and there's lots of good stuff in there (besides mine of course) ;-) https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/10722581_23 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-540-45213-3_28 Maybe borrow a physical copy from a library or access via an institution and see if it's worth it for you. As I say, definitely have a look at some of the other papers in each volume too while you're at it. If you have any specific queries about the tools I described or my approach I'll be happy to answer them, either on the list or privately (preferably on the list). I still use these tools (amongst others!) when programming, even after more than twenty years, and recently added an x86_64 code generator for Windows, BSD/Linux and macos (based heavily on the i386 generator - thank you AMD, nice job). I could probably write another paper (in my copious free time) about all the things I would have done differently, knowing what I know now. But hindsight is always 20/20... :) In writing these (encouraged gently but firmly at the time by Pieter Muller) I was not "open-sourcing" but rather, attempting in some small way to follow Prof. Wirth's principle that by describing what was done, people would be able to understand, and not merely copy. HTH, Paul

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 12:02 PM Skulski, Wojciech <skulski@pas.rochester.edu> wrote:

...

In writing these (encouraged gently but firmly at the time by Pieter Muller) I was not "open-sourcing" but rather, attempting in some small way to follow Prof. Wirth's principle that by describing what was done, people would be able to understand, and not merely copy.

What a terrible approach. By that principle, the EEs should only publish photographs of their boards rather than schematics.

Have you actually read the papers? Your incongruous response leads me to suspect that you haven't and have 'got the wrong end of the stick'. Regards, Chris Burrows CFB Software https://www.astrobe.com .

Good morning everyone, Sorry if this is a bit of tangent but there is an easier path to sharing access short of rewriting for historic material that is in bound form (like our conference proceedings). The Open Library accepts donations of physical books which they can and make available online via  "Controlled Digital Lending" or "CDL" in library jargon.  The CDL idea is that mirroring how physical books are handled in the digital space allows the lending of the book in a controlled fashion.  It's not open access but is do provide a form of public access. If someone has extra copies of the the conference proceedings they could donate them to the Open Library and then they'd be available for us to "check out" and read. I've read a fair bit of historical material this way. I've looked at the bound proceedings for 2000 and 2003 online and they are still rather pricey for used books (over $100 US). I'll will keep an eye on them, often things computer related are inflated just before schools start in the Northern Hemisphere.  If they get down to a reasonable price I'll probably try to pick them up and make a donation myself. The Open Library will accept physical copies of books they already have as this allows them to "loan" books in parallel (i.e. if they have three copies then three people can have then checkout at the same time). Paul mentions that the proceedings are good not just for is articles but generally. I have read PDFs via my institution's library and I found them interesting and helpful as an Oberon novice. So if you have the opportunity I think they are worth a read. All the best, Robert On 8/17/21 6:06 AM, Skulski, Wojciech wrote:

Chris:

You are correct. Your point is valid. I should apologize.

However, the articles are $30 each. I am sorry. It is not right, esp. given Paul's comment that this is cheap. No, it is not.

It is common to post the articles on ResearchGate and invite to share. It would also be possible to tweak the text and then make it public. Otherwise it is a bit out of whack with the common practices these days.

Wojtek ________________________________________ From: Oberon [oberon-bounces@lists.inf.ethz.ch] on behalf of Chris Burrows [cfbsoftware@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 12:12 AM To: ETH Oberon and related systems Subject: Re: [Oberon] [EXT] My "Building Your Own Tools" Papers

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 12:02 PM Skulski, Wojciech <skulski@pas.rochester.edu> wrote:

...

...

In writing these (encouraged gently but firmly at the time by Pieter Muller) I was not "open-sourcing" but rather, attempting in some small way to follow Prof. Wirth's principle that by describing what was done, people would be able to understand, and not merely copy. What a terrible approach. By that principle, the EEs should only publish photographs of their boards rather than schematics.

Have you actually read the papers? Your incongruous response leads me to suspect that you haven't and have 'got the wrong end of the stick'.

Regards, Chris Burrows CFB Software https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.astrobe.com&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=uUiA_zLpwaGJIlq-_BM9w1wVOuyqPwHi3XzJRa-ybV0&m=NSAreTVbEQGymFKxouqLZ56BbxBefdkfAL-WsbZtI4Q&s=0HLPbGIjRuC8X66ydn4yEFxKfkVmhbJTojDaulBJJ50&e= . -- Oberon@lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.inf.ethz.ch_mailman_listinfo_oberon&d=DwICAg&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=uUiA_zLpwaGJIlq-_BM9w1wVOuyqPwHi3XzJRa-ybV0&m=NSAreTVbEQGymFKxouqLZ56BbxBefdkfAL-WsbZtI4Q&s=HkZH8MHdKcLRPxN3hHqo86Oom_0doTref4pgJ9XdEko&e= -- Oberon@lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon

Thanks for the response, Paul, and to Robert: great idea!  I use archive.org extensively and have borrowed a handful of books, but didn't think of this.  (It's unlikely that I'm going to purchase a copy, though.) I'll stress that the Archive really does accept any donation.  From their recent blog post "No Book/Music/Movie (All Media) Donation Too Big or Small: Please Donate":

Looking around your home in the new year and wondering what to do with all the stuff you’ve accumulated? [...] As people move or downsize, they are often in a dilemma about what to do with their beloved books and records. [...] So what’s a preservation-minded person or organization supposed to do with their extra books, records, or other media? ¶ The Internet Archive is here to help!

<https://blog.archive.org/2021/01/05/downsizing-in-2021-donate-your-discarded-books-and-media-to-the-internet-archive/> This would be an excellent option for anyone not wanting the history of computing to be forgotten as a result of it being written through the lens of overwhelming influence by the industry's victors--something which I expect should be of interest to many of those on this list. On 8/17/21 12:11 PM, Paul Reed wrote:

they are quite confusing about it since they say their primary purpose is to build a database of book metadata:

https://openlibrary.org/help/faq/about#what

However, reading on it seems that with a login you can indeed borrow books.

Robert perhaps misspoke.  Open Library does aim to ingest all book metadata to fulfill their goal of "one web page for every book ever published".  In this sense, it's more akin to to a library's card catalog, rather than the library's content itself. archive.org, on the other hand (and which *is* a library), operates the controlled digital lending program.  Open Library integrates with archive.org services, so if there is a public domain scan available, or if the book is available through digital lending, then the catalog entry for that edition links directly to the archive.org-hosted version. Open Library also happens to be a project by archive.org.  This is admittedly pretty confusing. -- Colby Russell

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 3:24 AM Colby Russell <oberon@x.colbyrussell.com> wrote:

Thanks for the response, Paul, and to Robert: great idea! I use archive.org extensively and have borrowed a handful of books, but didn't think of this.

If you care about the rights of copyright owners be sure to read the caveats:associated with archive.org: https://help.archive.org/hc/en-us/articles/360014759692-Rights In particular: "The Internet Archive does not make guarantees as to the copyright status of items on archive.org and cannot guarantee information posted on item details or collection pages regarding copyright or other intellectual property rights. Our Terms of Use require that users make use of the Internet Archive's Collections at their own risk and ensure that such use is non-infringing and in accordance with all applicable laws" Regards Chris Burrows

Hi Paul,

Wait, unless you mean I should go back in time and renegotiate with those embattled folks at Springer,

hmm, just curious: Apparently Hanspeter Mössenböck did successfully re-negotiate the copyright of the English version of his book "Object-Oriented Programming in Oberon-2" (see: https://ssw.jku.at/Research/Books/ and scroll down or search for its ISBN 3-540-60062-0). Other papers, which were published in JMLC proceedings are available as drafts/preprints (search for JMLC in https://ssw.jku.at/Research/Papers/ although these are a bit difficult to digest being raw Postscipt). Regards -- Bernhard

On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 8:28 PM Paul Reed <paulreed@paddedcell.com> wrote:

On 2021-08-18 11:52, Treutwein Bernhard wrote:

...

Apparently Hanspeter Mössenböck did successfully re-negotiate the copyright of the English version of his book "Object-Oriented Programming in Oberon-2" (see: https://ssw.jku.at/Research/Books/ and scroll down or search for its ISBN 3-540-60062-0).

Hi Bernhard,

I think the copyright agreement definitely had something about if the book goes out of print, so maybe that's what happened here.

Cheers, Paul

Your recollection is correct. When I met Hanspeter at the Oberon day in 2011 I mentioned that I was disappointed. that his book was no longer available. Some time later he wrote to me saying:

I finally got hold of somebody at Springer-Verlag. They gave me the permission to make my Oberon-2 book available as PDF because it is out of print and will not be reprinted.

Presumably Springer must have had a change of heart since then as it is now back in print. Better download a copy quickly before they change their minds ;-) Regards, Chris