- SCION - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

SCION User AS
by Chandrashekar Dheeraj 25 Apr '22

25 Apr '22

Hi Is it possible to connect two User AS directly ? Or is it possible to have a peer link between them (even if they are connected to a parent node) ? Can this be done by ourselves ? Br Dheeraj

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Question
by Jérôme Bardot 22 Mar '22

22 Mar '22

Hello i m quite new to the list. If I understand correctly scion is part of the future internet. Where it goes in the internet full picture ? Is privacy relevant for scion ? If yes, has someone done some tests ? If i setup a lab do you need some feedback on a specific part ? or setup some scenario ? thx

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Re: [SCION] Connecting semi-autonomous heavy machinery through SCION Network
by Adrian Perrig 17 Feb '22

17 Feb '22

Dear Burak Thank you for your interest! This sounds like an interesting application. Tony John with his advisor David Hausheer at Magdeburg are actively researching the use of SCION for IoT applications, here's a Link to a short paper: https://netsec.ethz.ch/publications/papers/john2021_linc.pdf François Wirz in our team here at ETH can also point you to the best direction on how to obtain SCION connectivity. Here at ETH it is already available. It would be good if you could discuss with them for the next steps. All the best Adrian On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 3:25 PM Cizmeci Burak <burak.cizmeci(a)mavt.ethz.ch> wrote: > Dear Prof. Perrig, > > > Dominic and I are postdocs from RSL and pioneer fellows of ETH > "Teleoperated and semi-autonomous heavy machinery". > > Currently, we are working on a remote operations management system for our > unmanned excavators and tree harvesters. Security, reliability, and > high-performance data transmission features of SCION would play a crucial > role in our future development. Hence, we are interested in deploying our > machine network through SCION. It would be great for us if you connect us > to your researchers & colleagues to further discuss the possibilities. > > > Thanks for your support! > > > Best Regards, > > Burak Cizmeci > > > RSL Robotic Systems Lab/ ETH Zürich > > Leonhardstrasse 21 > > 8096 Zürich > > T: +41446327635 >

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Re: [SCION] recvmmsg: connection refused
by Juan A. García-Pardo 12 Jul '21

12 Jul '21

Hi Benjamin, sorry for the late reply. I'm happy to hear that someone will try to run scionlab in Kubernetes. I hope we can make it work. Let me try to help you with your setup, by first removing dead ends: - can you try to run scionlab in a normal VM behind your router? It will probably work, and then we are sure that the router is forwarding the port. - that ICMP from the attachment point is the attachment point saying that there is nobody listening on port 50195. The ICMP is being sent to you because the attachment point received a packet to that port from you. I checked the AP right now and I don't see anybody connecting to that port from a public IP address. Can you tell us your ISD-AS id? Best regards, Juan A. On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 4:35 PM Benjamin Pereto <benjamin(a)sandchaschte.ch> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm currently trying to get the scionlab setup work on kubernetes. I'm > doing this to better > understand how SCION works and improving my skills in kubernetes. > > For the development, containers with docker-compose is already used, and I > assume, it should also > work on kubernetes. > > The setup is similar to > https://docs.scionlab.org/content/config/setup_endhost.html and using the > scionlab packages for ubuntu with a ubuntu container image. > > My Setup is behind a FW/NAT and a port-forwarding is configured. So, this > **should** work. > > A little overview of the topology: > SCION(17-ffaa:0:1107) -> 50000:router (NAT port-forward) -> k8s > Service:50000/udp -> pod:50000/udp > > Starting with the border-router, the startup seems as expected until: > Failed to read batch {"err": "read udp 10.88.0.230:50000: recvmmsg: > connection refused"} > > TCPdump on my router shows: > * outgoing UDP packets from the border-router > * incoming ICMP unreachable message from the gateway 192.33.93.195 of the > attachement point 17- > ffaa:0:1107 as defined in the scionlab config/topology.json > > 16:20:52.043441 IP (tos 0xc0, ttl 38, id 8924, offset 0, flags [none], > proto ICMP (1), length 148) > 192.33.93.195 > 77.109.191.151: ICMP 192.33.93.195 udp port 50195 > unreachable, length 128 > IP (tos 0x0, ttl 37, id 58046, offset 0, flags [DF], proto UDP > (17), length 120) > 77.109.191.151.55039 > 192.33.93.195.50195: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 92 > > metrics also showing o router interface up: > curl -sfS http://10.88.0.230:30401/metrics | grep router_interface_up > # HELP router_interface_up Either zero or one depending on whether the > interface is up. > router_interface_up{interface="1",isd_as="17-ffaa:1:55",neighbor_isd_as="17-ffaa:0:1107"} > 0 > > I'm aware, that this is not a supported setup, but eventually someone has > a hint where I can debug? > What does the icmp unreachable from the scionlab gateway mean? > Is the dispatcher service needed for the border router? > > Best regards, > Benjamin > > [1] Logs of border-router: https://hastebin.com/dotovazoco.go > > > _______________________________________________ > SCION mailing list > SCION(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/scion >

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recvmmsg: connection refused
by Benjamin Pereto 07 Jul '21

07 Jul '21

Hi, I'm currently trying to get the scionlab setup work on kubernetes. I'm doing this to better understand how SCION works and improving my skills in kubernetes. For the development, containers with docker-compose is already used, and I assume, it should also work on kubernetes. The setup is similar to https://docs.scionlab.org/content/config/setup_endhost.html and using the scionlab packages for ubuntu with a ubuntu container image. My Setup is behind a FW/NAT and a port-forwarding is configured. So, this **should** work. A little overview of the topology: SCION(17-ffaa:0:1107) -> 50000:router (NAT port-forward) -> k8s Service:50000/udp -> pod:50000/udp Starting with the border-router, the startup seems as expected until: Failed to read batch {"err": "read udp 10.88.0.230:50000: recvmmsg: connection refused"} TCPdump on my router shows: * outgoing UDP packets from the border-router * incoming ICMP unreachable message from the gateway 192.33.93.195 of the attachement point 17- ffaa:0:1107 as defined in the scionlab config/topology.json 16:20:52.043441 IP (tos 0xc0, ttl 38, id 8924, offset 0, flags [none], proto ICMP (1), length 148) 192.33.93.195 > 77.109.191.151: ICMP 192.33.93.195 udp port 50195 unreachable, length 128 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 37, id 58046, offset 0, flags [DF], proto UDP (17), length 120) 77.109.191.151.55039 > 192.33.93.195.50195: [udp sum ok] UDP, length 92 metrics also showing o router interface up: curl -sfS http://10.88.0.230:30401/metrics | grep router_interface_up # HELP router_interface_up Either zero or one depending on whether the interface is up. router_interface_up{interface="1",isd_as="17-ffaa:1:55",neighbor_isd_as="17-ffaa:0:1107"} 0 I'm aware, that this is not a supported setup, but eventually someone has a hint where I can debug? What does the icmp unreachable from the scionlab gateway mean? Is the dispatcher service needed for the border router? Best regards, Benjamin [1] Logs of border-router: https://hastebin.com/dotovazoco.go

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Carbon aware SCION networking
by Seyedali Tabaeiaghdaei 24 Mar '21

24 Mar '21

Hi Chris, I've just joined the mailing list. I heard about your email from Matthias. Regarding your question number 4 I should say that I have done two energy/co2-related projects on SCION. The first one which is my Master's thesis exactly investigates what you asked in your email. We're putting CO2 emission per bit of intra-AS paths between ingress and egress interfaces of each AS hop into the PCB. The total CO2 emission per bit of the path would be the sum of these numbers for all hops on the path. A simple beaconing algorithm is also needed to select and propagate the greenest set of paths. (We cannot propagate all paths due to scalability issue, so we should propagate the greenest ones) We are also investigating the effect of traffic shift from dirty ASes to green ASes on the behvior of dirty ones and their willingness to become greener. A simple model is proposed for that in my thesis. We will use a more sophisticated model in the later work. As this is not yet published, I'll send it to you as soon as it is published. The second project which is older investigates the energy consumption of SCION ASes. We showed that SCION can save around 7 GW globally mostly by removing routing tables from routers. There is a report for that which is not official. We may publish it in the future. Best Regards, Seyedali

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Carbon aware SCION networking.
by Chris Adams 24 Mar '21

24 Mar '21

Hi SCION folks. I’ve been looking at SCION as a potential technology to building a degree of carbon awareness into the internet, so that it’s possible to have path preference policies that optimise for carbon intensity of the routes chosen, but also to move compute jobs to areas, either geographically or temporally, where compute is particularly cheap and green. I have a few questions. I hope that a kind soul on the group might help me answer. Some background before the questions For context, I work at the Green Web Foundation, and was introduced to SCION by Adrian earlier, in a call. I find the technology really exciting, and it’s really cool seeing problems solved at a protocol level that I see large companies building proprietary stacks to solve for themselves. We’re looking for partners with experience using SCION, as part of a bid to the NGI Pointer funding call at the link below, to build a demonstrator of these ideas. We’re currently working with a small sustainable CDN provider, and a grid intensity data provider, come up with a user facing product that relies on features of SCION to make what I outlined in the my opening paragraph possible. You can learn more about the funding bid we’re going for at the link below: https://ngi-pointer-open-call-2.fundingbox.com <https://ngi-pointer-open-call-2.fundingbox.com/> The questions 1. Exit nodes for SCION - it’s my understanding that there are libraries you can use, to allow connections from a device to go from regular internet ‘into’ the SCION internet via an attachment point, at which point all the clever routing can happen, and then on the destination server you want to reach. origin -> attachment point -> multiple SCION hops > destination I understand there has been some work to make something like an 'exit node’, to allow connections like so: origin -> attachment point -> multiple SCION hops > ‘exit node' > destination I can understand how you might do this, by encapsulating the original origin/destination packets, but I’m not sure where to look to see the code for this. Would someone point me to where I should be looking, or if there is a specific issue tracker I ought to watch to learn more? 2. Exposing path preferences for carbon routing I've shared a sample path preference policy based on assumed carbon intensity of SCION AS as a thought experiment - I’m guessing at some of this on the SCION side, but the intention of this policy object would be: ‘choose the greenest route possible, even if it results in more hops, as long as the total CO2 is lower along the longer route" https://gist.github.com/mrchrisadams/12fa0d440b6873e8afef986aa78ec60a <https://gist.github.com/mrchrisadams/12fa0d440b6873e8afef986aa78ec60a> - We’ve have a prometheus exporter that exports these figures, so that the numbers can be advertised for route planning purposes. Both of the providers we consume data from in the grid intensity exporter can provide readings at a time resolution that I think would match SCION (I think we can reliably get readings every 30 mins for most parts of the world) https://github.com/thegreenwebfoundation/grid-intensity-exporter/ <https://github.com/thegreenwebfoundation/grid-intensity-exporter/> However I think I need some help understanding how to go from having this information in an prometheus exporter, and having a path policy to them being advertised so they can be used in routing. How can I go from here to announcing it via the beacons, so numbers like this can be used in routing decisions? 3. Getting help and advice We’re looking for someone who would be able to answer questions like this to join us on the bid, but I couldn’t tell who we should be contacting for this. We’re submitting this bid as a research project, and we couldn’t tell if it made sense to ask here or contact Anapaya directly, and once we knew that it wasn’t clear what an engagement might look like. Are the companies that offer retainer-type services or a block of time we could work into the bid so when we come up against technical problems we have someone to ask for pointers? Thanks in advance for my questions. 4. Prior work Finally, if there’s prior work in this field on SCION and climate, or papers that are already published - would someone direct us to it? We’d like to be able to point to it, and find fellow travellers too. I know about the this paper below, but I’m not aware of any others: Modeling Data-Plane Power Consumption of Future Internet Architectures <https://www.scion-architecture.net/pdf/2016-energy.pdf> Chen Chen, David Barrera and Adrian Perrig. In Proceedings of the IEEE Conference on Collaboration and Internet Computing (CIC), November 2016. Many thanks Chris Chris Adams Co-director w: thegreenwebfoundation.org e: chris(a)thegreenwebfoundation.org t: @mrchrisadams The Green Web Foundation Van 't Hoffstraat 1 6706 KD Wageningen, The Netherlands

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SIG Configuration
by Chandrashekar Dheeraj 09 Feb '21

09 Feb '21

Hello I have two ASes each running its services on a dedicated IP instead of 127.0.0.1 and I was trying to establish a SIG between the same, however even after following the instruction from https://docs.scionlab.org/ I still cannot Ping each other. Do I need to add something to the topology.json file in order to make the SIG work ? Also the SIG github page shows 404 page not found error. Regards Dheeraj Research Assistant Dept of COMNET Aalto University

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Routing in and out of SCION, and commercial providers of VPN services
by Chris Adams 01 Feb '21

01 Feb '21

Hi there, I’m trying get a better understanding of how SCION works, and where the technology might fit into common tools I might already use. For example, after reading over the docs, I get the idea I might be able to use this like I use a VPN at present, where from my machine my traffic heads to to "up" into SCION, the same way I might pay to use something like Tailscale. From there I might assume that my packets would be sent along the SCION internet, and my destination is ‘inside' the SCION network, all is well. What about if I want to connect to another host, on the regular internet, but I want as much of it to go through SCION as possible? I’ve been looking through the docs and presentations, and I think I understand how the approach for routing packets works differently within SCION (with the route preferences stored in the header rather than relying on each hop), but I don't think I understand what happens once you have reached the last hop. Are the original packets with the destination encapsulated at the point that the data packet joins SCION via the attachment point? If that's the case, I assume once you’ve reached the hop ‘closest’ to the destination, responsibility would go back to the ‘regular' internet at that point, with BGP and routing tables in use again, but I’m struggling to find the appropriate part of the docs or the book that explains this. Can a kind soul point me towards this part? Commercial providers of VPNs or connectivity Also, where would I find commercial providers of some kind off VPN or networking service for this? Chris

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Introductions and a question about SCION python libraries
by Chris Adams 24 Jan '21

24 Jan '21

Hi there, I found out about SCION last week after being introduced to Adrian Perrig and Claude Hahni, and while it’s taking me a while to understand the differences to the regular old internet, I’m finding it fascinating. I work as part of the Green Web Foundation, and my interests with SCION are largely down to the ability to choose multiple paths for requests, and figuring out the carbon intensity of sending data along each hop, to allow clients like browsers and so on to take this into account when sending requests over the internet. If this is the place to talk about that, I’d be happy to. But first of all, I think I need some help with a question about the recorded talk at the link below that I saw on the FOSDEM YouTube channel, called SCION Future internet that you can use today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtfXrLmOgqY <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtfXrLmOgqY> Around the 8:30 mark, you can see some python pseudo code, showing how you might import a scion module in python, initialise it, get a series of possible routes, then choose a route to send data along to the host you’re intending to connect to. I’ve written the code into gist, to avoid this email getting too messy. https://gist.github.com/mrchrisadams/498411fe39802a800f828b91afd7506d <https://gist.github.com/mrchrisadams/498411fe39802a800f828b91afd7506d> Sample code for sending requests to a host Where would I find some more sample python code like this? I’m trying to figure out what connecting my personal laptop, phone or server to a destination over SCION would look like, and in particular, I’m trying to understand how it would look compared to using a common HTTP client in python like requests <https://2.python-requests.org/en/master/> or httpx <https://www.python-httpx.org/>. I’m aware of the scion apps repo and bat, the CURL like tool written in go, listed at the link below: https://github.com/netsec-ethz/scion-apps/ <https://github.com/netsec-ethz/scion-apps/> Where should I be looking to start experimenting with SCION if my main programming language is python? I’ve had a look on GitHub search, for code like the kind I saw in the FOSDEM slides without much luck, and well… the talk did say get in touch :) Thanks Chris

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