December 2002 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

V24 - Serial comms.
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 20 Dec '02

20 Dec '02

> ... > >AT+FMDL? <-- one of countless AT commands to test > >AC/V34 > > > >OK > >AT+FMFR? > >ROCKWELL > > > >OK Peter Easthope wrote: > In essence I am doing the same except that the > DIAL script initializes the modem, dials and > passes authentication. The problem is to > have V24.Panel take over from the DIAL script. > > Seems the last command of the script should > close the serial port so that V24 can open > it. Should look for a Close command in > Dialer.Mod ... Dialer.Hangup calls Dialer.Hang which messes with the DTR line. So you go down to hardware level. Where you perhaps don't want to go ? Landing and taking-off are the most error prone stages of flying. Instead of landing, transfering and taking off, you can just 'fly straight through to your destination' - and crash when you have finished ! Ie. working with your own code using only V24, instead of going in and out of the existing Dialer might be simpler. The act of 'handing over' is perhaps complicated by hardare handshakes and who talks/listens first. Ie. starting from a well defined 'reset condition' is easier than 'transfering'. As a further example of: 1. hidden complications with hardware, difficult to detect and fix, 2. need to resist individuals hacking privately instead of 'contributing'; n-o 2001 beta (and I suspect other versions) hangs if my ISP cuts off prematuredly: subsequent attempt to dial & ppp fail. With several attemps at <Crtl><Break> immediately after I retry to dial/ppp I eventually manage to unlock the situation and don't need to reboot. I guess some critical task is halted by <Crtl><Break>, which allows the 'system' to fall into a state from where it is 'unlocked' and can proceed. You don't want to encourage such problems. -- Chris Glur. PS. Perhaps the sequence of strings to dial and connect can be pasted to the V24.Panel in one action. {My pixel resolution shows only right-wards up to the [ESC] button when using the User-track. And there is no hint that there is more important stuff hidden. } Columbus.Inspect ~ shows that one of the [PF*] buttons does: V24Gadgets.Send V24 "\e[P" ~ So I'm guessing that you could: 1. start and connect V24.Panel, 2. execute simple code which does: V24Gadgets.Send V24 "ATZ <perhaps also CR> some appropriate wait {or just extract the code from the Dialer ?} V24Gadgets.Send V24 "<ATD your dialing etc...> 3. continue to use V24.Panel manually. You might even be able achieve dialing from the 4 [PF*] buttons. Or I think V24.Panel has facilities to pre-set a script of outputs. In all these cases you start and complete using only the V24.Panel, instead of trying to 'transfer' from the Dialer.

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subjective opinion - Bb has
by Yuri M. Skripkah 19 Dec '02

19 Dec '02

Hello , . I'm trying use Bluebottle system on hardware: PII-350/BX440/256M RAM/Permedia2/3com509TPO all work OK. My subjective opinion is: system has some delay in response,but it work very,very fast at all. (Linux with KDE 3 and Win 2000 monsters both - work smoothly, but more slowly on this computer) Who know, is this behavior naturally - Bb not optimized now or video output is slow or threads synch in Bb work in this manner or I have wrong hardware (in details, which I not see) ? -- Best regards, Yuri mailto:yurix@i.com.ua

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? How2fetch http://--.tar.gz & V24
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 19 Dec '02

19 Dec '02

> 2. How would I use n-o to fetch http://--.tar.gz ? "Peter Easthope" wrote: > From memory (probably partly wrong) select the URI of the > file you want and execute HyperDocTools.Fetch <LocalName> ~. Apparently NOT. * HyperDocs.Tool reads: HyperDocTools.Fetch Local.Doc ~ Download the selected link to Local.Doc. ** I don't want 'local', I want from remote side of the world, ** I don't want 'doc', I want a binary file. Even with <LocalName> available, HyperDocTools.Fetch PICscope.html ~ shows nothing nor System.Log trace ! Yet Desktops.OpenDoc "PICscope.html" shows 'goods-stuff'. I would susupect that HyperDocTools.Obj is dud, except that I regularly use HyperDocTools.LinkIndex * Re. not being able to fetch via Desktops.OpenDoc "*.tar.gz", whereas .doc, .wpd, .pdf etc are fetchable: my first guess is that the code made a simplistic but false assumption which worked OK up till now (like the false assumption that loginID and passwords would not use "@"), that "." would be followed by the 'file-extension' which has no further ".". ------------ > Can anyone offer advice about establishing a terminal connection > over a serial line (ie. not IP)? I have a dialer which connects to > the server and does the authentication. The difficulty is in > getting the V24.Panel to take over. "Desktops.OpenDoc V24.Panel" > gives this message. > Can not open port, error = 1 I've spent some time with V24 testing a voice modem and have got a lot of 'logs'. I clearly remember often having the: Can not open port, error = 1 problem. I can't remember how I fixed it. Here's some of my log, that suggests I needed to re-boot ? :- > Devlp:LOG11Oct.alfa -> V24.Panel == Can not open port, error = 1 > Try 'alpa 11.10.2001' machine: V24.Panel Open: 2 19200 8 1 none > == opens OK ??! > ** try re-boot. & 2 19200 8 1 none == Opened ... > ** just paste strings from "Oberon.Text / Dial = {" followed by <enter> > ?? problem to re-run (can't paste-in stings) after Clos-ing ?? > ** try re-boot )OK ... cuts of for "ATM1" during dialing. > ** try omit "ATM1" I want to dwell on an unmentioned yet important fact of remote-colaborative work: when one user finds he has to 'cough twice and wink thrice' to get the machine working, this 'technique' moves to his sub-concious, and he later falsely imagines that the machine has 'no problems'. So he can't understand/accept that the next user(s) can't fly. So you have the perpetual 'n-o underscore char', where old-users just have their private-patches/work-arounds and potential new users just abort. Back to the specifics of you problem, here my log for NOW: 1. Desktops.OpenDoc V24.Panel 2. set to eg. 2 38400 8 1 none == Can not open port, error = 1 3. try: 2 19200 8 1 none == Can not open port, error = 1 4. I can't re-boot NOW, before I've read my latest inet load. NB. if your mouse is on port 1, it's good that opening port 1 fails ! In your case, I guess: the dialer drives the serial port; drives the modem. I would (once the V24 has the ser.port and gets 'talkback'/confirmation from the modem), use a script to the V24 to do the dialing etc. and then carry on with the rest of the task. Ie. don't have a 'dialer' separate from the V24 facility. I'll try it later after I re-boot. -- Chris Glur.

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V24 - essential trivialities.
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 19 Dec '02

19 Dec '02

> Can anyone offer advice about establishing a terminal connection > over a serial line (ie. not IP)? I have a dialer which connects to > the server and does the authentication. The difficulty is in > getting the V24.Panel to take over. "Desktops.OpenDoc V24.Panel" > gives this message. > Can not open port, error = 1 After I got this same problems I found that after re-booting (perhaps not essential) when I 'pasted' "2 19200" as my new setting to the TextField I neded to: <CR> to get it accepted <F9> to 'clear something'. Try that. Then start controlling your modem. My log was (with input: keyed or pasted always followed by <CR>): Opened ... atz OK ATX OK ATDT7400679 <-- hear dialing and ringing NO CARRIER AT+FMDL? <-- one of countless AT commands to test AC/V34 OK AT+FMFR? ROCKWELL OK -- Chris Glur. PS after I did the above I went on line, using n-o's dialer (as normal) but the behaviour was NOT as per normal. Ie. my using V24 to access the modem messed-up the normal Dialer / ppp method. Dailing occurred, but login was different. I should have first closed V24 ! Now I need to re-boot ? "2 38400 8 1 none" is also a valid setting for me, as shown by the log: Opened ... atz OK ATX OK ATDT4502105 BUSY AT+FMFR? ROCKWELL OK Closed <-- now I expect n-o Dialer / ppp to enable me to post this ?

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[Oberon]? Desktops.OpenDoc"http://--.tar.gz"
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 18 Dec '02

18 Dec '02

As previously noted, internet access is increasingly important for any computing system. Apparently the http transport protocol was originally intented for the htm(l) display format ? Apparently driven by the 'dumbing down' movement, where all is doable from your browser (assumed to be MS-IE), much now, from email to *.tar.gz is only available via http ? As I remember, it was Edgar Schwarz who pointed out that Oberon.Text could be extended at: MIME = { "application/msword" = "" "text/plain" = doc "application/wordperfect5.1" = "" "text/plain" = wp "text/plain" = wpd "text/plain" = pdf .... This is a tremendous help (for me), not having to drop out of n-o the get important material from the internet. I tried: .... "text/plain" = tar.gz .... but it fails. 1. What is the background/history/justification/advantage for the various 'transport' protocols ? 2. How would I use n-o to fetch http://--.tar.gz ? -- Chris Glur. PS. As previously noted, I don't want to be a lone hacker on work that has potentially a wider interest. Ie. investigating Desktops.Mod for me is a no-no ! I had to use linux/netscape to get http://--.tar.gz An interesting hack which allowed me to 'capture' wordperfect {.wp, .wpd} to my n-o system (being exstensively used for legal archives, this is currently extremely important to me): 1. Norton Commander (DOS) can 'view' wordperfect files. 2. a TSR 'screen capture' will capture the ascii to one-file-per-screen. 3. go back to n-o and conveniently access the stuff in the FAT partition, moving it to a n-o partition while reading/analysing/colouring/ script-changing to extract the meaning(s). An example why n-o must retain DOS capabilities, until the 'DOS-PC' is dead. What needs to be spelled out is that for the completed process of: 1. fetching the data, 2. reading the data, 3. understanding (extracting the knowledge from) the data, there seems to me, no system superior to n-o for the all important third stage. But it really breaks the flow to have to drop out of n-o to fetch the data.

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Re: [Oberon] Multiple incompatibilities with ISPs
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

As previously noted: there are very few System 3 internet users - posting by S3 is 'traceable'; increasingly, internet usage is at the heart of computing. I believe that those of us who still use S3 for internet access, just had enough influence or made enough noise to get the 'code adjusted to work with our setup'. This empirical approach is partly due to the fact that the system (of S3 machine and the world of ISPs) can't be 'covered'. The developer needs to make a reconnection to his ISP to get a single test run. And his ISP is only a specific (single case) test case. Knowing how S3 interacts with the world-population of ISPs, moves one out of 'hard science' and the use of statistical/empirical observations (over hard logic) is appropriate. Here are my observations: --------------------- * when I started V2.3.2 stand alone (? 5..9 years ago) Mail.Panel would not 'connect'. After some investigation, I suspected some 'timing' reason (the complication is the need for 'compatibility' of the user's setup and the ISP). * TextMail.<commands> connected OK. * V2.3.6 DOS based still failed to connect via Mail.Panel. * 2001 beta version now finally connected via Mail.Panel. At one stage my previous modem (still used occasionally for faxing) would not seize the line, yet linux and DOS dialers would ! Suspicions of changing line impedance or 'central supplied voltage' were not confirmed. Two points: 1. it's very difficult to develop and test when you depend on the outside world - the telco and ISP. 2. with a small community like ours, amortising the development and maintnance 'cost' is a problem, and after any problems, users just 'drop out'. But they don't say anything. That's why you all just use microsoft ? But don't admit it. When my ISP changed so that the "@" char was part of my login userID and/or password, the existing (false) assumption that "@" was not permitted here made the system fail. I patched my code. Other potential users would just revert to MSoft. S3's pop3 implementation not to RFC: --------------------- For years my pop3 'worked OK'. Then with a new ISP, TextMail.Directory showed =< 3 entries. This because the ISP's echo at this stage of the dialog was "... POP3 $Revis", and the code searches for the first numeric string to show the directory entry-count. Again, apparently previous versions of mail servers 'tended' to show the entry-count; it seems that the S3 code was built empirically, rather than theoretically from the RFC. Again I patched my code to use the RFC specified 'call' to get the 'number of entries'. Looking back to an old pop3 RFC to justify the 'design' - ie. perhaps previously the 'number of entries' was automatically given without the "STAT" command. The older RFC still implied that the S3 code would not guarantee the directory entry-count. My conclusion is that once the break down rate (due to non-RFC compliances working their way through) exceeds the maintenance rate of the 'product', death of ETH oberon as a work-horse is inevitable. The last thing we need is a few isolated users patching their code individually. Where is the central control ! -- Chris Glur.

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Program slicing tool
by muller＠inf.ethz.ch 10 Dec '02

10 Dec '02

Can anyone help with this? -- Pieter From: leena chavan <lchavan2002(a)yahoo.co.in> Subject: decoding problem Topics: ToDo Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 04:51:18 +0000 (GMT) To: oberon-admin(a)inf.ethz.ch respected sir i have downloaded software "oberon program slicing tool" and installed oberon original version in a FAT16 file but i dont know where to load the ascii coded files of the slicing tool.To use the ascii coded tool please inform in which directory should the coded software be. pls guide how to create an oberon directory. thank you

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Problems w/mouse 3 buttons emulation on Win2000
by Fernando Passold 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

Helo, Sorry, but I am experiencing some problems trying to use the Oberon System 3 (Release 2.3) on a Thinkpad 600 equiped with Windows 2000 (service pack 3). There is happening a misfunctioning with the mouse 3 buttons emulation schemme (as I am using a traditional mouse with 2 buttons). When I press CTRL + left botton of the mouse, the screens continuously blinks. I can not move, resize or use Copy & Paste facilities. I allready have tried to find documents over the install directories or via internet but I am not successfull. I will apreciate a lot if someone can get me some help (maybe the solution is quite simples as edit a configuration Text file - but how?), thanks in advance Fernando ps: could be the problem be related with mouse driver for IBM/Thinkpad? ............................. FeRnando Passold Doctor Student of DAS/LAI - UFSC - Florianópolis/SC - BRAZIL Dept of Automation Systems Federal University of Santa Catarina BRAZIL

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