April 2005 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Oberon Database
by Dan Parnete 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Hello, I have read this list archives, the documentation inside the distributions, some extra found on the web and I understood. Database is a Tabu word in this community, and is better to not talk about. There is no trace in any distribution (excluding the commercial BlackBox) and the new Bluebottle project doesn't intend to implement one. Ok. It's a choice of live. But don't tell me none of you never needed to put some data altogether. I can't believe nobody extended at list the Library code to more flexible collections management. I saw some database projects started long time ago. Where are this implementations? In other words: if I need a database, have I write it myself? Dan

4 4

Two questions
by Michael McGaw 03 May '05

03 May '05

I am looking over a recent release of Bluebottle, and have two questions: 1. I see the object module Packages.Obx. Does there exist a port of the Packages facility that comes with WinOberon, but works under Bluebottle, or, more especially, Oberon? In a related way, is there an example of the use of Packages, one that shows how to construct a package, given a desired contents? 2. I have been reading and re-reading Pieter's dissertation concerning the kernel. Is the 1 Khz scheduler interrupt rate something that can be altered? I see in some modules, this appears to be designed as a configurable parameter, but others seem to be built with an implicit understanding that the rate is indeed 1 Khz. Thanks, Mike McGaw -----Original Message----- From: oberon-bounces(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch [mailto:oberon-bounces@lists.inf.ethz.ch]On Behalf Of oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 5:00 AM To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch Subject: Oberon Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1 Send Oberon mailing list submissions to oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.mail.inf.ethz.ch/lists/listinfo/oberon or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch You can reach the person managing the list at oberon-owner(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Sparc Solaris Oberon (shark(a)gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:04:08 -0800 From: shark(a)gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca Subject: [Oberon] Sparc Solaris Oberon To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch Message-ID: <"221053889.61704.56450."@king.pathology.ubc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Is there any chance of Sparc Solaris Oberon running under qemu on Sparc Debian? Anyone tried it? Thanks, Peter http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/ ------------------------------ -- Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://www.mail.inf.ethz.ch/lists/listinfo/oberon End of Oberon Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1 *************************************

4 5

Oberon on HDD
by jan verhoeven 28 Apr '05

28 Apr '05

Hello, Sorry to have bothered the lot of you, but my problems with installing Oberon to disk were related to my flaky IDE controller. I switched to Lithium and reinstalled Oberon. It boots like never before from the Lilo menu. Thanks for all the hints from you people. And thanks to the geniuses from Switzerland who made this all possible. I wish I could do something back for Niklaus and Juerg. -- Met vriendelijke groeten Jan Verhoeven http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl

1 0

DosBasedFS=OFSDosBasedVolumes.New OFSN2KFiles.NewFS
by jan verhoeven 28 Apr '05

28 Apr '05

Hi, I have some more information about my non-booting Oberon system. After Lilo invokes Oberon at /dev/hda2 (IDE0#02) I press the left Shift key. Which gives me a status overview of which one line is a bit strange: DosBasedFS=OFSDosBasedVolumes.New OFSN2KFiles.NewFS I have installed Oberon in a partition of its own, but still, the system 'thinks' it is DOS based. If I enter 'Init=9090' before pressing 'c', I end with the errormessages: error 2 OFSBoot: Mount failed on BootVol Modules: System.Obj not found OFSBoot: System.Obj not found Apparently, the bpptloader is looking in a place where there is nothing. How can I change this? -- Met vriendelijke groeten Jan Verhoeven http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl

1 0

Why doesn't it install?
by jan verhoeven 27 Apr '05

27 Apr '05

I'm trying my best to install Native Oberon 3, Alpha release to this computer: - AMD K6 CPU - 144 MB RAM - IDE0 = 2 GB disk --> all of it for Oberon - IDE1 = CDROM drive - IDE2 = 2.4 GB disk with sundries I can install Bluebottle on it, but I don't like that. I had it running with Oberon 2.3.6, but I want to have the alpha or beta release. The Alpha release runs perfectly from Floppy disk. After I install it, I get a black screen and the activity LED of the HDD is off. Only a RESET will help. When installing I tried just about everything: - I wiped out the full IDE0 disk - Formatted the disk with NTFS - I followed the instructions in the *.Tools file - I installed Linux on the IDE2 disk and tried to use LILO to boot Oberon Is there something silly I am overlooking? Desperately wanting to install Oberon.... -- Met vriendelijke groeten Jan Verhoeven http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl

1 0

[Fwd: Oberon Darwin62 port: UDP errors]
by Pieter Muller 26 Apr '05

26 Apr '05

Is anyone actively maintaining the Darwin port? cheers -- Pieter -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Oberon Darwin62 port: UDP errors Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:25:36 +0200 From: <joerg.straube(a)alcatel.ch> To: <muller(a)inf.ethz.ch> Hi PJ I think I detected some errors in the current "Unix_Oberon_r24_Src" of Unix/ppc.Darwin62. - "UDPExample" can not be compiled as "IP" is now ARRAY OF CHAR. Looking at the code, it seems as "IP" was "LONGINT". (* wrong *) IP := ORD(buf[pos+3]); IP := ASH(IP, 8)+ORD(buf[pos+2]); IP := ASH(IP, 8)+ORD(buf[pos+1]); IP := ASH(IP, 8)+ORD(buf[pos]); - In the Unix version of NetSystem.OpenSocket the variable "res" is uninitialized if "B.Socket()" fails. Just move the line "res:= error" in the ELSE part in front of B.Socket() (* wrong *) B.Socket(socket, B.AFINET, B.SOCKDGRAM, B.IPPROTOUDP); IF B.done THEN IF locPort # anyport THEN ... B.Bind(socket, myaddr); IF B.done THEN ... res:= done; ELSE ... res:= error END END END - In the Darwin version NetBase.IPPROTOUDP* is 11 instead of 11H or 17. (* wrong *) IPPROTOUDP* = 11; Please check and mark for correction in a next release. Best regards Joerg

1 0

I'm new
by jan verhoeven 25 Apr '05

25 Apr '05

Hi, I'm new to this list, but not new to the languages of Professor Wirth. As you can read at http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl I spent a lot of time with some Modula-2 compilers and now I want to try out the Oberon system. It intrigues me how such a small system can be so versatile. I have one question for the moment: The other day, I tried to install BlueBottle to a harddisk, but although the CD-ROM worked beautifully, I could not mount the formatted Aos FS. I forgot the original errormessage but it was something like "<something>.New failed" Does this ring a bell? -- Met vriendelijke groeten Jan Verhoeven http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl

1 0

Please Remove Me from Mailing List
by Lance Schwerdfager 22 Apr '05

22 Apr '05

Hi, This is to request that lschwerd(a)rogers.com be removed from the mailing list for the time being. Thanks. Lance Schwerdfager

1 0

Anecdotes: human factor, admission - embarrassment !
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

Since writing this a few days ago I wasn't sure if I'd already posted it. So I tried to check the mailing-list archive. n-o can't even read its OWN mailing list -- not good !! John Drake wrote:- > I believe there is an ARM/Xscale port already. See: > https://www.mail.inf.ethz.ch/archive/oberon/2004/001407.html > .... Thanks but n-o can't read 'https', and I must reboot to linux and face a song-&-dance dialog about security.... I'll do it later. > On the flipside the OOC (optimizing Oberon > Compiler) and the companion product Visual > Oberon are open source projects from the > ground up. > I don't want to spend time investigating another failing route, but do you know if 'Visual Oberon' has some 'syntax directed input facilities' instead of free/blind creating source text which is then submitted to the compiler ? -------------- You can't do more than the most brief-trivial programming without pondering the limitations of human mental facilities. That's what prompted a previous post re. 'syntax editors and stuff' which removes the need to remember and only requires recognition. Of the several responses none IMO got to the heart of the problem which is that in n-o the ability to pick sytactically valid big constructs from a menu is an irrelevant labour saver compared to the acrobatics needed to eg. 'type-change backwards and forwards' to eg. do the equivalent of: OutPort[Blue] := MaxOf(Inport[Height], Inport[Length]) LOR Speed; where 'LOR' is binary-bit-or (as all of us coming-up via hardware are trained and expected to think); versus the n-o absurd syntax. Plus unconventional inconvenience that n-o won't accept functions as args. Plus the 'natural' priority to work with bytes requires punishing mental acrobatics. Perhaps it could be hidden behind a macro-menu ? Briefly: any 'syntax editor' which allows you to effortlessly build naive code 100 times faster, is as irrelevant as the box that runs 100 times faster than my previous 386, and saves me 99% of 10 mS for n-o operations - i.e. save me 10 mS. As you know, for effective optimisation, you must concentrate on the resource consuming areas. It's no good halving the trans-atlantic flight time, to be followed by a six hr road delay. ------------- Re. 'Nth generation' smart tools: Because I dropped out of industry before the Pspice & other simulators were common, I'm always wondering how much these tools really contribute. I'm wondering if: http://www.mathworks.com/applications/dsp_comm/description/mbd.html > "Models are easy to share with designers, and reduce their need to build > physical prototypes. Instead, designers can simulate and iterate as many > times as necessary to refine the model to meet the constraints of the > target environment, and to validate the system behavior against the > requirements. Once the design is refined and validated, designers can > automatically generate code from the model, eliminating the need for hand > coding and the errors that manual coding can introduce. > > Engineers can ensure quality throughout the development process by > integrating tests into the models at any stage. This continuous > verification and simulation helps identify errors early, when they are > easier and less expensive to fix....", really works, as I mistakenly expected syntax editors to. Or is it just garbage-hype like "talking to your computer for input" ? ----------- Re. human incapacity to remember vs. recognise: I recently posted a query/request for 'removing no-ascii chars', and while searching for other utils, I see on my Personal.Tool: StripNonASCII.Do <Src> <Dst> ~ How embarassing: I've previously raised this issue and had it attended to already !! Which confirms my plea to reduce memory load and replace it by recognition - especially if the victim has many unrelated projects/languages. It's a nightmare when you want to do a small task in a language which you haven't used for a year or more. Ideally the user should need to remember nothing - just read the box. n-o's cording goes even beyond replacing recalling with recognition, by moving the hi-frequency operations to instinctive cording. == Chris Glur.

2 1

Re: [Oberon] Re: Oberon Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10
by John Drake 21 Apr '05

21 Apr '05

--- Soren Renner <srenner(a)mail.ru> wrote: > "n-o's cording goes even beyond replacing recalling > with recognition, > by moving the hi-frequency operations to instinctive > cording." > > I love it too, Mr. Glur, but I spell it correctly: > CHORDING. You know, like chords on a piano keyboard. > Hasn't this come up before? Yeah. I misspelled it and you corrected me. :) Regards, John M. Drake __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

1 0