November 2022 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

http://cas.inf.ethz.ch/projects/a2
by peter＠easthope.ca 14 Feb '23

14 Feb '23

Hi, For more than 24 hours, access to http://cas.inf.ethz.ch and to http://cas.inf.ethz.ch/projects/a2 has failed. Do others observe the same? Thx, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 222, Issue 8
by Soren Renner 08 Nov '22

08 Nov '22

Count me in for Linux64 On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 6:00 AM <oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote: > Send Oberon mailing list submissions to > oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oberon-owner(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. A2 development and distribution; was, Distribution practice. > (peter(a)easthope.ca) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2022 08:25:34 -0800 > From: peter(a)easthope.ca > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Subject: [Oberon] A2 development and distribution; was, Distribution > practice. > Message-ID: <E1os4wI-0000n4-Rz(a)joule.invalid> > > From: Felix Friedrich <felixf(a)inf.ethz.ch> > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 08:22:19 +0100 > > ... boils down to a binary search in past revisions until the > > revision can be found that introduced the new behavior. > > Fundamental methods are so pervasive and powerful! A few days ago I > considered binary search to find a fault in series wired Christmas > lights. In that case another algorithm was more appropriate but at > the end of the day, 210 lights worked again. =8~) > > > Example: in revision x we change the representation of arrays with > > pointers. Only in revision y = x + d we find out that on particular > > systems ... We check out revision y - 200 ... > > Difficulty of the correction process increases with d. With a > relatively low frequency of use, A2 has large values of d, in > comparison to Debian Linux for example. What strategy can help to > keep d small for A2? My naive thought is to increase rate of testing > in relation to rate of revision. Perhaps enlist volunteers to > perform a test procedure for each platform. I can test on Linux32 and > according to > > https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/A2#Target_Systems_and_File_Name_Extens… > volunteers are needed for five other targets. We also need a test > process suitable for the volunteers. > > Regards, ... P.L. > > > mobile: +1 778 951 5147 > VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 > https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > -- > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Oberon Digest, Vol 222, Issue 8 > ************************************** >

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A2 development and distribution; was, Distribution practice.
by peter＠easthope.ca 07 Nov '22

07 Nov '22

From: Felix Friedrich <felixf(a)inf.ethz.ch> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 08:22:19 +0100 > ... boils down to a binary search in past revisions until the > revision can be found that introduced the new behavior. Fundamental methods are so pervasive and powerful! A few days ago I considered binary search to find a fault in series wired Christmas lights. In that case another algorithm was more appropriate but at the end of the day, 210 lights worked again. =8~) > Example: in revision x we change the representation of arrays with > pointers. Only in revision y = x + d we find out that on particular > systems ... We check out revision y - 200 ... Difficulty of the correction process increases with d. With a relatively low frequency of use, A2 has large values of d, in comparison to Debian Linux for example. What strategy can help to keep d small for A2? My naive thought is to increase rate of testing in relation to rate of revision. Perhaps enlist volunteers to perform a test procedure for each platform. I can test on Linux32 and according to https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/A2#Target_Systems_and_File_Name_Extens… volunteers are needed for five other targets. We also need a test process suitable for the volunteers. Regards, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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oberon-uefi ?
by D EMARD 07 Nov '22

07 Nov '22

HI Is there oberon as UEFI executable? It could be bare-metal executable running on modern PC without OS (no need for windows/linux) Here's example of tetris-uefi https://github.com/a1ive/uefi-tetris I tried binery, it works, there's source and makefile for gcc.

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Distribution practice; was http://cas.inf.ethz.ch/projects/a2 .
by peter＠easthope.ca 07 Nov '22

07 Nov '22

From: Michael Schierl <schierlm(a)gmx.de> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2022 23:15:20 +0100 > ... git's preferred workflow and store only sources and not binaries > in the repo. Günter released UnixAos at intervals of approximately 6 months. http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~fld/UnixAos/ Would a hybrid practice work? Sources in a repository. Binaries posted on a server as warranted. Tools and instructions allowing convenient production of binaries when required. Regards, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Re (2): Re (2): Distribution practice.
by peter＠easthope.ca 06 Nov '22

06 Nov '22

From: Michael Schierl <schierlm(a)gmx.de> Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 14:16:07 +0100 > On cas.inf.ethz.ch there has already been a continuous integration > workflow. Thanks. I had to learn the abbreviation. =8~/ Odd term. CI is really not continuous in a real number sense. It's a series of snapshots. > Making the next person who tries so unhappy. In a team of one person, itegration is spontaneous. =8~) As a team grows, the ratio of itegration effort to creative effort increases. =8~( In a gigantic system most "maintenance" effort is on integration. Ref. https://bugs.debian.org . Most "bugs" are really integration snags. Debugging requires a broad knowledge. Isn't such growth one of the aspects which Prof. Wirth has consistently striven to avoid? > ... a fresh build and not necessarily vetted by anybody, so it might > not work well. Circumstances of compiler development and common usage are so different. A compiler bug can be catastophic but few people work on compilers and bugs are a prime focus. A bug in an application such as a picture editor may be only an annoyance. J. Doe user can ignore it or work around. Can a core system be managed by a few people following CI, while system snapshots are released to the public annually or semi-annually? In any case, a useable result comes from diligent and meticulous effort. Thx & BR, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Re (2): Distribution practice; was http://cas.inf.ethz.ch/projects/a2 .
by peter＠easthope.ca 06 Nov '22

06 Nov '22

From: Michael Schierl <schierlm(a)gmx.de> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:23:01 +0100 > ... CI workflow ... Continuous Integration workflow? How many people edit A2 sources? Does a module require more than one editor? The benefit of multiple editors of the compiler will outweigh integration requirements? > ... zip these up for each architecture and make a "nightly link" > available ... Nightly? Why so frequent? Thx, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Re (2): http://cas.inf.ethz.ch/projects/a2
by peter＠easthope.ca 04 Nov '22

04 Nov '22

From: Felix Friedrich <felixf(a)inf.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2022 08:13:06 +0100 > Feedback welcome. With almost zero knowledge of the subject, I found this helpful. https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSvnComparison > * A GIT checkout contains all history and will probably become huge for > A2 with all its binaries. >From the page cited above: "Git's repository and working directory sizes are extremely small when compared to SVN." Mitigates the bulk of multiple binaries? Thanks to everyone working on this, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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(a2/<platform>/work) versus (a2 > File Manager > WORK).
by peter＠easthope.ca 04 Nov '22

04 Nov '22

Hi, In the a2 File Manager, WORK is an alias for work. What is the benefit? Why not just work? Thanks, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Starting A2 from the SVN repository.
by peter＠easthope.ca 02 Nov '22

02 Nov '22

Hi, Just expanded the instructions for starting A2 from the SVN repository. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/A2#Startup_from_the_Repository The instructions are from use in Debian Linux. I don't have access to MS Windows. Instructions for that are extrapolated. Corrections welcome. Editing welcome. Otherwise ask me to correct. Thx, ... P.L. mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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