March 2006 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Native Oberon on sourceforge
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 31 Mar '06

31 Mar '06

Jan Verhoeven wrote: > > > > Since this is now a GPL project, I need the sources for > Treutwein Bernhard wrote: > I sent the NO and the BlueBottle license together with > a pdf of the BlackBox to OSI (see > http://opensource.org/licenses/index.html) for approval. > > > > > 'oberon0.dsk' so that we can make this downloadable as well. > > Well that's perhaps 'sensitive'. I've never read about the > > 'oberon0.dsk' sources ? > > > > I remember vaguely that there is a tool for creating it from > the distribution ... > > Firing up an oprhaned 133 Pentium with NO ... just checking it > .... there are the following tools: > > Install.Tool > InstallFiles.Tool > Configuration.Tool > > and there is: Oberon0Files.Text which aparently list everything > what should go onto the installation diskette. I'm not experienced at working down at kernel level, but the real-guts on oberon0.dsk has to include a kernel and a boot-loader [probably uncompressing]. == Chris Glur.

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Re: [Oberon] Native Oberon on sourceforge
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 31 Mar '06

31 Mar '06

Jan, Bernhard, >> 'oberon0.dsk' so that we can make this downloadable as well. > Well that's perhaps 'sensitive'. I've never read about the > 'oberon0.dsk' sources ? I've lost track of who said what. In case it helps any, Oberon0 is built & etc. in Native.Tool. The sources are referenced there and were on ftp.oberon.ethz.ch a few months ago at least. Regards, ... Peter E. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Dynamically changing video mode ?
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 31 Mar '06

31 Mar '06

When linux enters X-window mode, [depending on the installation] it's possible by Ctrl/Alt/+ to step the display resolution. A bit like N-O can step mouse-types to allow the user to select a suitable type, based on observing the behaviour of the various selected types. It would be convenient to sometimes be able to change the N-O display resolution. Eg. the most standard mode [VGA 640*480 I guess] is good/comfortable, but some panels eg. V24.Panel and FontEditor.Panel overflow the UserTrack and would be better with a higher resolution. Provided this can be acheived without re-booting. When booting [from a diskette], <leftShift> shows the startup parameters, which can be changed. This is eg. convenient to change the 'root partition'. Obviously the video mode displayed argument can also be changed. Q - for trace at that stage: "<display=VGA>" is for VGA, but what are the arg-strings for the other valid args ? Configure.Tool , a tricky utility, which implements an 'active menu' without even using Gadgets [I want to discuss this in another thread], has a sequence of: Config.Display <arg1> <arg2> eg: Config.Mode VGA 16-color Config.Display ATI Mach64 . <?! the Configure.Tool self-modifying text is very tricky; the commands are apparently context sensitive, since they don't operate isolated eg. out of the Configure.Tool , eg. in this email ?!> Since text-strings appear AS the exact same text-strings in the *.Obj files which uses or accesses/compares them [There's no point in hiding/encoding them]... Q- why can't I find "Mach64" in Config.Obj, nor in Config.Mod ? I'm speculating that the leaf-nodes of the 'active menu' tree which Configure.Tool implements, each generate an arg-string [probably many are common] which could be manually entered at boot time to change the video mode. Q- is this true & are they listed somewhere ? Ie, what's the boot-arg string for video mode: Config.Mode ATI Mach64: 1280*1024*16 ? ------------------------------------- I also speculate that the relevant *.Obj files could be replaced at run time to change the video-mode 'dynamically' . Q- is this viable ? Thanks for any input. == Chris Glur.

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RE: [Oberon] Re. Native Oberon on sourceforge
by Treutwein Bernhard 31 Mar '06

31 Mar '06

> > > Since this is now a GPL project, I need the sources for I sent the NO and the BlueBottle license together with a pdf of the BlackBox to OSI (see http://opensource.org/licenses/index.html) for approval. > > > 'oberon0.dsk' so that we can make this downloadable as well. > Well that's perhaps 'sensitive'. I've never read about the > 'oberon0.dsk' sources ? > I remember vaguely that there is a tool for creating it from the distribution ... Firing up an oprhaned 133 Pentium with NO ... just checking it ... there are the following tools: Install.Tool InstallFiles.Tool Configuration.Tool and there is: Oberon0Files.Text which aparently list everything what should go onto the installation diskette. -- Bernhard Treutwein, IuK, Ref. III A 3 Bernhard.Treutwein(at)verwaltung uni-muenchen de

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Re: Changing The System Font Size
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 31 Mar '06

31 Mar '06

August Karlstrom wrote: > This is probably a very basic question, but I haven't found an answer > to it, so... How do I increase the system/default font size in ETH > Oberon (2.4)? On a 17 inch LCD monitor with resolution 1280x1024 the > text is tiny indeed. John Drake wrote: > > One thing I noticed though. Changing > > the default font doesn't automagically make > > text files already created (including tools) > > have different fonts. August Karlstrom wrote: > Yes (that's why I said "worked" above). Being able to read text > comfortably seems like a rather basic requirement. Moreover, some labels > are cut off with a (slightly) larger font like Oberon14.Scn.Fnt. I > thought ETH Oberon was more mature than this. > > Thanks anyway, N-O is better than "mature". It's more free of inappropriate legacy. You asked the wrong question. You DON'T want to increase the size of the default font ? You DON'T want the people to look bigger and the horses and dogs still look too small -- and loose proportions ? When I installed [plain vanilla] VGA, I had about 80-char wide on the UserTrack, which is good because it's a standard -- I maintain that people should'nt rely on auto-wrap when posting email. Then once I tried installing with SVGA: <big Wide> * <big High> and of course EVERY thing was smaller. I expect that you should be able to do a 'new install' to get a more suitable 'magnification' without loosing your data. If you still have problems, mention your version [John Drake's stuff is different from mine] and I'll give you a detailed 'log' of what to do, if it's compatible with my version[s]. == Chris Glur.

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Re (2): AW: Re (2): [Oberon] crazy Aos
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 30 Mar '06

30 Mar '06

Roger, r> ATADetect=leagacy ATADetect="legacy" seems to work. There is more output after a delay but this is enough. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/AosTraceLegacy.jpg My data part on the CF is LBA. "LBA not supported" is bad news. In any case, IDE0#3 still fails to mount. Incidently, FTP.GetFiles crazy/AosSysSrc.zip ~ stalled. The server must be awfully busy. This is dismal but also more certain. Thanks for the help, ... Peter E. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Changing The System Font Size
by August Karlstrom 30 Mar '06

30 Mar '06

Hi, This is probably a very basic question, but I haven't found an answer to it, so... How do I increase the system/default font size in ETH Oberon (2.4)? On a 17 inch LCD monitor with resolution 1280x1024 the text is tiny indeed. Regards, August

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Re: AW: Re (2): [Oberon] crazy Aos
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 30 Mar '06

30 Mar '06

Sven, s> Have you also set "Init="? Good! Hopefully this is legible. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/AosTrace.jpg s> The new ATA driver (AosATADisks.Mod) could be a problem ... Seems so. If any additional information will help, let me know. Thanks, ... Peter Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Re. Native Oberon on sourceforge
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 30 Mar '06

30 Mar '06

Treutwein Bernhard wrote: > Around three years ago, Pieter Muller has put up a > sourceforge project for Native Oberon. He has filled > it with a rudimentary home page and - more important - > a tiny CVS client for NO, i.e. some utility to > "encode" the NO binary format into a readable ASCII > representation and upload files to CVS. > > see: https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/pipermail/oberon/2003/003328.html > and follow ups. Yes, I too looked recently, and was disappointed to see 'nothing'. OTOH I guess that Pieter Muller would have made a well considered decision - which is hopefully still valid. > Maybe we should try to proceed, if Pieter > can authorize some others with admin rights. > > Who is willing to coordinate? Perhaps Jan Verhoeven will - continue, since he's started ? John Drake wrote: > > I had a look at > http://nativeoberon.sourceforge.net/ > > So I would just use this existing project. I > wanted to register with Sourceforge > > but it didn't work just now. I will try again. > > Then I guess Pieter will have to accept me as a > developer :-) --- Pieter Muller <pmuller(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Sure, just mail me. > > BTW I see Sourceforge has quite a lot of advertising > on the web site > and in the mailing lists. I hope that doesn't > become too offending. Jan Verhoeven wrote: > Today I made a .tar.gz file available on Sourceforge containing > the Native Oberon 2.3.6 operating system. > Did you just copy the one from ETH ? Once I read about v 2.3.7 [perhaps connected with LNO]; is v 2.3.6 the latest 'stable', or why did you choses it ? > I tried to upload two documentation files as well, but somebody > seems to have to approve on this. > As you see above Pieter Muller (who nursed the N-O project for some years - before your time ;-) will authorise. > Since this is now a GPL project, I need the sources for > 'oberon0.dsk' so that we can make this downloadable as well. Well that's perhaps 'sensitive'. I've never read about the 'oberon0.dsk' sources ? BTW since you use linux, are you interested in LNO ? Remind me, does sourceforge use frames, forms, java-script ... which N-O can't [yet] do ? == Chris Glur.

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Re. Oberon Digest, Vol 30, Issue 24
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 30 Mar '06

30 Mar '06

Having added gmail [just as a spare/safety since it's inefficient to http around the world instead of collecting mail from a local server], and because N-O's mailer has no 'sent' list, I believe I haven't yet posted this to oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch ? ELSE 'sorry for repeat' ! ------------------------------------- Rene wrote: > Bluebottle DOES have a browser. Is it much more 'full featured' than N-O's ver 2001, what about java-script and other eye candy, needed today ? Is it difficult to port Bluebottle aps. to N-O ? Or is Bluebottle as stable yet as N-O ? > > Which system do YOU think has the best chance of becoming a standard. jan verhoeven wrote: > Anything starting with the letter 'C'. That's for sure ! > NO is nice for playing or for study. Period. It cannot be compared to > Linux or Windows. Well that's a very vague/unscientific statement, 'anything CAN be compared with anything'; although I think I know what you [wrongly] mean. I've got access to W98 & 4 flavours of linux and I never use them for my 'heavy text read/write/analyse'; where compared to N-O it's like tying your shoe laces wearing boxing-gloves. Here's an example: * your've got a 'lynx type' webpage of multiple screen length. * while you read the hotlink descriptions on top, you want to extract some corresponding URL's [several screens below] to another file. * and during this you want to see if that strange word [perhaps latin] didn't appear also in the telecommunication files which you downloaded/extracted/archived over the weekend. Try doing that with Win or even linux - quiet a job. As mentioned N-O is increasingly lacking new inet facilities, and if you need to extract text from a *.pdf and fax it, then you MUST use Winxx or linux. > > I needed to know how to save a file that I had > > created. I just never > > figured that out. > John Drake wrote: > You click in the space directly to the left of > the [Close] button. They you type a name, such > as "MyModule.Mod". Then you click the [Store] > button. That's it. This confirms what I've long suspected: you & I are reading from totally different scripts ! ... snip ... > Step 3. Set the caret in the panel by left > clicking on it. You'll see a little "x". OK I think I could 'get there' if I took the 'Desktops.OpenDoc' route. IMO it's pointless using N-O if you want maximum eye-candy. If you want electric windows and airconditioning you use a limousine and not a minimalist racer ? IMO N-O *IS* the interface and the fact that you just need to 'look at the file's ID and "think" "open it" and it opens without needing to touch the keyboard'. > The latest version has a webbrowser. The > documentation needs to be updated. >From which OS ? > Also > the older versions can run Oberon System 3 > inside a window. System 3 has (a very limited) > web browser also. But you won't be able > to do things that require Flash or JavaScript > with either of them. "Feature creep" on > the WWW is an problem that few alternative > operating systems can completely get around. > That's why I use a "hosted" version of > Oberon (either System 3 Plugin, or V4 for > Windows or Aos/BlueBottle for Windows). So what extra [wrt N-O] facilities has the webbrowser of Aos/BlueBottle got ? > I can still use Firefox when I need to. > Really, I rarely try to browse the web > from Oberon, but I use the built in webbrowser > to download/parse/reformat web pages. > That's similair to what people do with > REBOL. (http://www.rebol.com) > Are you able to download with a full-featured browser under Win-OS and use N-O/Aos/BlueBottle to manipulate the text from the download by just switching between Win & 'Wirthian' OS ? Chris Burrows wrote: > So far we have no idea of what it is you are trying to do once you have > found an operating system and development system that you like. If you > can describe what your eventual aims are we should be able to give > better advice. Some typical questions might be: > > Are you developing programs for fun / educational purposes or for > making money (or, like me, both)? > > ... etc. That's the correct answer. Yes, Rory has made conflicting requests. I've only advised HOW to quickly test the magic of N-O, to be able to abandon with minimum investment if you're not impressed. == Chris Glur.

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