April 2016 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Source code browser in NO
by Srinivas Nayak 25 Mar '17

25 Mar '17

Dear All, Do we have any source code browser in NO? I see we have Definitions browser in NO. Using Watson, if we create *.Def and *.Def.html, we can browse through Definitions. Anything similar for source code? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

4 5

Re: [Oberon] Concurrency support in Oberon
by John R. Strohm 25 Nov '16

25 Nov '16

No, Oberon has no concurrency support in the language. The Oberon system provides a simple event loop, that allows programmers to do simple round-robin run-til-done scheduling. --- sinu.nayak2001(a)gmail.com wrote: From: Srinivas Nayak <sinu.nayak2001(a)gmail.com> To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> Subject: [Oberon] Concurrency support in Oberon Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:27:05 +0530 Dear All, We had Pascal, We came to its successor Modula-2. Then we came to its successor Oberon. But do we still have the concurrency programming support in Oberon, which was present in Modula-2? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/ -- Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon

16 24

Re: [Oberon] Availability of OberonStation
by Chris Burrows 14 Nov '16

14 Nov '16

> > From: Oberon [mailto:oberon-bounces@lists.inf.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of > Ken Boak > Sent: Monday, 18 January 2016 7:29 PM > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Subject: [Oberon] Availability of OberonStation > > Have any of the list had experience of the Oberon system on the > Xilinx Artix-7 - specifically on the $99 Arty board - is this a > preferred platform? > It is likely that I have had the most experience on the Xilinx Artix-7 seeing as I ported our 'embedded' subset of ProjectOberon to the Arty board ;-) I agree with Walter. Oberon-07 is an ideal language for developing embedded applications. I'm not sure what you mean by 'preferred platform'. The Arty (Artix-7) and the Pippistrello (Spartan-6 LX45) development boards are the only two I have found so far that have sufficient BRAM to run embedded ProjectOberon without external SRAM. Saanlima's Pippistrello is about $50 more than the Arty. However, the Pippistrello does have a built-in SD Card socket and can also be used as an ProjectOberon Workstation development system with Saanlima's optional Oberon SRAM 'Wing'. There are many simpler FPGA boards available but all the ones I have found use less-capable FPGA devices with insufficient BRAM. The Arty and the Pippistrello have more features than are needed for embedded Oberon applications like those on the ARM Cortex-M3/M4 boards that we support. However, I guess that doesn't matter for those who are designing their own boards and just want an off-the-shelf reference system to use for prototyping / proof of concept. If on the other hand you want to run the complete Project Oberon 'workstation' system with VGA / HDMI, keyboard and mouse. You will need a board with external SRAM like the OberonStation. An Arty would not be suitable for this purpose. > Finally, and perhaps best addressed to Chris Burrows - I see that > you have produced packages for the ARM M3 and M4 Cortex - mainly NXP. > Do you have any aspirations to port to Cortex M7 - such as the $50 > STM32F7 Discovery Platform - which has a great selection of useful > hardware on-board? > There used to be an clear distinction between the simple 8-bit microcontroller at one end of the spectrum and the 64-bit PC at the other. In recent years the two have started to converge. The embedded systems are becoming more powerful; the PCs are becoming smaller and less power-hungry - the distinction is blurring. The STM32F7 Discovery Platform seems to me to be more a miniature PC than a high-power embedded system. While we remain focused on supporting embedded systems we are unlikely to be targeting it, Regards, Chris Chris Burrows CFB Software http://www.astrobe.com/RISC5

34 147

Wikibook _versus_ svn or git.
by peter＠easthope.ca 06 Sep '16

06 Sep '16

Hi, A small discussion about the possibility of a wikibook for the sources for the Oberon system is here. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks_talk:What_is_Wikibooks#The_source_c… I began the discussion out of interest. Certainly I don't claim to have any convincing answer or solution. Comments here or on the Wikibook page are more than welcome. Thanks, ... Lyall E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

6 7

Oberon language family and the master.
by Srinivas Nayak 05 Sep '16

05 Sep '16

Dear All, I am referring to http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/archives/languagearchive/genealogy. Here we see that Oberon language from its birth has gone through several revisions. Many times either NW or others have added new features to it if they feel a need of it. Or removed existing features, if they found it unnecessary. After all these iterations, Oberon might have got time tested. So today, can we say, whatever is present in Oberon-7 is time tested; and one doesn't need to add or remove anything from it; and this is the state-of-the-art; and is simple but not simpler? If so, one wouldn't worry about Oberon V, Oberon X, Active Oberon, Action Oberon, Object Oberon, Concurrent Oberon etc. etc. With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

4 4

Global font change on OLR
by Srinivas Nayak 15 Aug '16

15 Aug '16

Dear All, I found OLR easier to use while I am on Linux. I think the font size of OLR Oberon is small. How can I change the font size to a bigger one? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

6 22

oberonstation vs. a $9 computer
by skulski＠pas.rochester.edu 14 Jul '16

14 Jul '16

Lars: It is sort of funny that one can use the low price as an argument. How much do you value your time? Let's say it is $5 per hour, way below minimum wage. How much time will you spend on getting anything done with any piece of hardware, be it Arduino, RPi, Beagle Bone, or Oberon Station? Are you going to achieve anything meaningful in less than 10 hours? If so then I will consider hiring you for $50 per hour. The low price does indeed matter if you will use the hardware in a finished product. They are talking of a disposable computer. If you are going to basically throw it away after a single use (provided that you environmental soul lets you do it), then indeed $9 matters. But if you are going to do any development or experimentation with the HW, then you will likely spend hundreds of hours doing so. Then it does not matter if you invest $9, $90, or even $900 into your hardware. Almost any such amount is dwarfed by the cost of your time. Oberon Station is a development platform. The valid question is "development of what?". The initial dollar investment in the development hardware is not that important in this case. W. > The oberon station is tempting, but with Raspberry Pi at $35 > or the C.H.I.P computer for $9.00... that has USB, > and WIFI that works like any wifi, the oberon station > is really priced way out of the market. If the > oberonstation was around $50 more people would buy. > How can you possibly compete with the C.H.I.P. > for $9.00.

10 23

Trouble with copy paste. Awkward feature comes in.
by Srinivas Nayak 06 May '16

06 May '16

I could never do the interclicks perfectly for copy paste. (May be because of non-Oberon habits) :-( I wish if I could integrate ctrl-c and ctrl-v feature from other Oberon version to my NO. The biggest trouble while doing copy-paste is, an awkward feature. Say, I have only one viewer, V1 opened in user track. I have to copy something from V1 to system log viewer, V2. I selected the word/phrase in V1, cursor is also seen in V1. I went to V2, did a ML. Cursor went to V2. If I do another ML at the same point, Cursor goes back to V1! Being curious, I did another ML, it comes to V2 again. With another ML, it again goes back to V1. And so on. What is the usefulness of this feature? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

6 13

Reading LaTeX?
by eas lab 03 May '16

03 May '16

Dieter<d.gloetzel(a)web.de> wrote: > What is your interest in this? Often a 200 line *.html article contains 5 lines of LaTex maths formular. Because I can't read the LaTex, my whole effort of fetching the article is wasted. > I know pretty well Oberon and LaTeX,. You mean how to operate "Windows", or the underlying theory of LaTex? > and typesetting mathematical formulas is no rocket science. Doesn't typesetting refer only to the size and position of chars? Did you know that old-ETHO has a simple WYSIWYG program that you can use to eg, make any char [best use one between 128...255] to render any bitmap picture? So Char(300) could display a horse ...etc. I started making the Cyrillic char-set, some years ago. The example that I posted: " (x, y) \mapsto x \times x + y \times y" probably could be translated to be understandable with the existing charset. I'm guessing it means: (x,y) => x * (x + y) * y I'm not interested in WRITING Latex; I just want to be able to read/understand the articles that I fetch. Here's some of the existing ETHO files under contributions. But I don't find any top-level-description! == Chris Glur. PS. here's some of ETHOs files:- LateX.Tool LateX.Tool.Bak TeX.Obf TeX.Tool TeX.Obf TeX.Tool TeXBetaApr9.Arc = 707639 Feb 26 2007| TeXContrib TeXContrib.Bak TeXDistribution.Tool TeXDistribution.Tool.Bak TeXError.Obf TeXGlobals.Obf TeXIO.Obf TeXMC.Obf TeXMCU.Obf TeXOut.Obf TeXRest.Obf TeXView.Obf = 41633 Apr 8 1999 TeXViewAdmin.Obf TeXViewPK.Obf TeXltx.Arc = 26 Jul 24 ?! ?? why *.Obf ??

2 4

Railway System vs All terrain vehicle.
by eas lab 27 Apr '16

27 Apr '16

I have ETHO/Aos files scattered all over my file-tree of multiple disks with 50+30+12 = 92 partitions; because when I need the facilities of LEO, like coloring to mark/recognise and extract + copy sections of text or see 4 sections of a TextFile together, only ETHO can do it. So my new trick-script to view/edit any ETHO-file which I find anywhere in the file tree, by only 4 kliks is very useful. 2 kliks to copy the file's path/name to the fixed location, and 2 kliks to launch LEO and load the file; and 1 klik to get back to the previous state. It's important to NOT have complex procedures for simple repetitive tasks, like quickly viewing a file, whos name suggests a possible interest. Of course it can do DOS/Micro$pook an *nix files too, since I've got no other tools besides LEO eg. to visually find where 2 text files differ. ============= So I though I'd see if I could use the same trick with LNO [and later ALO]. But I can't. With LNO, I'm locked in a cage. I can't roam the filetree. Writing the file-to-be-accessed's path/name as a sym-link to LNO's dir. also fails, and writing the path only: works 30% of the times ?! ========== So I though I'd see if V4 could do it. Linux V4 which I haven't used for some time is very slik/impressive. While searching I discovered TeX.Mod ! and : TeX.Print FAQ.Text gave "Calling tex tmp.tex tmp.dvi created" and generated files: tmp.dvi | 2204|Apr 26 21:25| tmp.log | 160|Apr 26 21:25| tmp.tex | 1756|Apr 26 21:25| And: dvipdf tmp.dvi tmp.pdf shows the reduced quality pdf of the V4 file: FAQ.Text Quite amazing! But I don't want to WRITE LaTex. I want to READ maths text of LaTeX, like: G_{\mu \nu} + \Lambda g_{\mu \nu}= {8\pi G\over c^4} T_{\mu \nu} ; which I suspect can be done by a simple translation-table. This LaTex I suspect, involves stacking text at multi-levels, like when you write a numerator/denominator as a numerator: P = \frac{\mathrm{d}E}{\mathrm{d}t} = - \frac{32}{5}\, \frac{G^4}{c^5}\, \frac{(m_1m_2)^2 (m_1+m_2)}{r^5}. Apparently, with the latest html-standard, the client's browser uses javascript to run an ap, in the the html, to render the LaTeX. It's getting increasingly absurd; like the US automobile industry, before it collapsed and was replaced by Japanese realism. ============= ETHO gives you a fantastic improvement over the standard "klik-here-and-d/l-the-html-with-all-the-commercials and save in an unknown location, chosen by the latest-browser, so that YOU lose control of the system". When you are investigating a topic [these days everything is fetched by html, even if not containing graphics or needing hyperlinks; i.e. designed for dummies], you build a <book> which instead of. getting dirty/worn-out as you use it, get's more intelligent. * create an ETHO-GadgetsFile suitably named by YOU. * use any of the several available methods to copy the text from the fetched-standard-html into your book. * use a <screen capture> utility to capture-to-png any worthwile images; use ETHO's facilities to paste the captured.png to the suitable location in your evolving book. This would allow you to eg. paste a LaTex maths formular, once it was rendered by "something". * as you read/consult your book, you will want to delete material that's known, and HiLite/Color other texts, and add extra text & images. * of course, as you fetch more material on the topic, you can just add extra chapters to your evolving book, as it suits you. That's how YOUR book evolves and becomes more intelligent, instead of being a vendor-lock-in-product designed by some one else. == Chris Glur.

1 0