February 2007 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

MM+MR into mutt in ssh viewer vs. into Web mailer in vnc viewer
by Easthope 28 Feb '07

28 Feb '07

Folk, Here is a case study in using ssh and vnc. After many hours of reading and tinkering, mutt running on machine H at home can be accessed via ssh from another machine M, at an arbitrary location. Of course, M runs Oberon or Aos containing ssh and vnc clients. Typically I compose a message using ET and then want to copy it into the viewer for a mailer visible in M. The mailer can be mutt viewed via ssh. Otherwise it is Web based, MailSite Express viewed with vnc. Copying with MM+MR into MailSite Express via vnc works. An attempt to MM+MR copy into mutt in the ssh viewer immediately freezes it. Yet a command such as "ls *" can be copied into the ssh viewer and executed with no difficulty. Hopefully someone with a better understanding of the protocols and softwares can explain why one method works while the other fails. Thanks, ... Peter E.

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Toy
by Søren Renner 27 Feb '07

27 Feb '07

Chris Glur is correct: the early version of the toy interpreter does not handle "if" correctly, and has other errors, which were fixed in a later version which is either lost or is on a hard drive in a drawer, which I will examine in an attempt to find it. I advise anyone interested in toy -- STRONGLY ADVISE -- to either modify what you have or write an interpreter de novo, as you will learn SO MUCH if my experience is any guide. (I found that I knew what "continuations" were.) If you write one de novo consider following my example and writing the interpreter without any "stack" -- just a linked list of boxes works perfectly. Perhaps a stack would be "faster" but then you aren't after raw speed or you wouldn't be writing a joy/toy interpreter.

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Adendum: BlueBottle and Cardbus RTL8139
by Bernhard Treutwein 24 Feb '07

24 Feb '07

there are some quite old posts about PCMCIA/Cardbus which imply that there was a solution, see: https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/pipermail/oberon/2007/005205.html and https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/pipermail/oberon/2003/002786.html which imply that there was a solution for a PCI-Cardbus bridge. If that code is still around somewhere, I could give it a try. I have only two Cardbus devices, the network adapter and an USB 2.0 adapter, but it might be possible that my employer has some other devices to try out a broader spectrum ... regards Bernhard Treutwein Bernhard Treutwein (at) verwaltung uni-muenchen de (work) BdT (at) wildwein de (home)

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Soren Renner's concatenation-lang toy test cases ?
by Chris Glur 23 Feb '07

23 Feb '07

Soren Renner, I can't find your gmail-adr. Besides the recent post re. bad [too regular] 1st line of Base64 of rayTracing on Edgar's wiki got no reply. ========== I've been chasing after 'mathementical/formal foundations of computing', and reading about joy seems to suggest that something exists. I've joined the 'concat..' mail-list today, and tried some familiarisation test with toy. But the "if" 'COMBINATOR OP' is giving me problems. Here are some of my test results:-- >> [[1 2 3] [4 5 6 7] concat] == output: [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ] >> [[1 2 3] reverse] ] == output: [ 3 2 1 ] >> [ 4 5 equal ] == output: F >> [5 97 typeequal ] == output: T >> [5 7 swap pop ] == output: 7 >> [ [5] [3 6] cons ] == output: [ [ 3 6 ] 5 ] >> [ [] empty ] == output: T [ ] >> [ [5] [dup] 3 times] == output: [ 5 ] [ 5 ] [ 5 ] [ 5 ] >> [ [5] [4] if ] == TRAP -14 NIL reference >> [ [5] [4] [3] if ] = TRAP 1 WITH guard failed >> [ [T] [4] [3] if ] = TRAP 1 WITH guard failed >> [ [4] [3] [T] if ] = TRAP 1 WITH guard failed Please provide a valid example to test the "if" COMBINATOR OP ? Of course we are NOT looking for another language to do "hello world, 2+3=5"; but if joy/toy can expose some of the 'deeper theoretical aspects' of computing, I'd like to put it on Egdars wiki. Thanks, == Chris Glur.

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[BlackBox] Recent Files Link
by Aubrey.McIntosh＠Alumni.UTexas.Net 23 Feb '07

23 Feb '07

I want to create a windows shortcut from within BlackBox. I have read the MSDN information on SHAddToRecentDocs, which is a WinAPI call to add a shortcut to the recent documents list. I cannot find any evidence of this in the (Win)API.odc file. I have also found a C++ entry for IShellLink::GetDescription that is a more general way to make windows shortcuts. There is a C++ utility using this described at http://www.flexhex.com/docs/articles/hard-links.phtml#softlinks and the source is available. I read C++ much more slowly than Oberon, and haven't digested this yet. I have also noticed that when I go to the Files menu and select open, then doubleclick on a file name to open it in blackbox, the recent files list is updated. I can't find anything in HostFiles that seems at all related to this, so I wonder if it is some side-effect buried deep in windows. I don't know how to access a C++ method in Blackbox, and I haven't dug through to find out how to modify WinAPI to have this call available. Has anyone else worked on this? -- -- Aubrey McIntosh, Ph.D.

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Re: [Oberon] BootMan
by Bernhard Treutwein 21 Feb '07

21 Feb '07

Hi Aubrey, > got good access to a boot sector source from something such as Linux or BSD ... you could check the source for stage1 of Grub legacy. Latest revision of Grub legacy: http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/grub/stage1/stage1.S?rev=1.36&root=grub… and for Grub2 it appears to be http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/grub2/boot/i386/pc/boot.S?rev=1.9&root=… and/or http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/grub2/boot/i386/pc/boot.S?rev=1.9&root=… These are the sources to Linux/Solaris/BSD boot sector (or one of the possibilities). regards Bernhard

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Re: [Oberon] BootMan
by Easthope 21 Feb '07

21 Feb '07

Aubrey & others, am> I didn't find messages from you in my email or the archive. I assume that Andre himself will write to you. That is another topic and I'll post again when email works for me. Forget it for now. am> Nonetheless, are you doing anything in the boot manager? Just routine use. I mentioned those points only for interest and documentation. am> I ask because many boot managers use a trick to put the processor into protected mode ... Pity that such tricks are necessary. "Tricks" inevitably lead to more problems. am> Have you, or anyone else on the list, got good access to a boot sector source from something such as Linux ... Is this any help? http://lxr.linux.no/source/ am> Are you working on this very approach yourself? No. Just trying to get some systems working nicely. Thanks, ... Peter E.

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BootMan
by Easthope 21 Feb '07

21 Feb '07

Folk, Sorry for the four defective messages last week. I'm working on the problem. The source code suggested that BootMan was written by Andre Fischer. Also, Andre has written much of the documentation in http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/. Therefore I am puzzled that http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/bootman.html covers Windows NT/2000 Multiboot and GRUB but does not mention BootMan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootman states "bootman is the BeOS boot loader." If there is an opportunity to document BootMan, a comment on any connection to BeOS bootman, or absence thereof, would be interesting. Thanks, ... Peter E.

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Printing in BlueBottle ?
by Treutwein Bernhard 21 Feb '07

21 Feb '07

before fiddling around too much: Am I correct with the following: To install a printer, I have to use the Oberon subsystem and install the printer as documented in: http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/printer.html Is the printer usable under BlueBottle in general? regards -- Bernhard Treutwein Bernhard Treutwein(at)verwaltung uni-muenchen de BdT(at)wildwein de --------------------

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BlueBottle and Cardbus RTL8139 ?
by Bernhard Treutwein 18 Feb '07

18 Feb '07

Hi Folks, are there any chances to get PCMCIA Network card with the Realtek 8139 chipset to work under Bluebottle ? Linux (Kanotix 2005-4) lspci finds it (output enclosed), but BlueBottle-Oberon's PCITools.Scan does not detect it (if necessary, I could try to get also this output, but that revived laptop is still under splendid isolation when booted from the crazy-fresh CD of 7-Feb-2007 and I did not want to fiddle around with a floppy). thanks in advance for any help Bernhard Linux lspci output: 0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (AGP disabled) (rev 02) 0000:00:03.0 CardBus bridge: O2 Micro, Inc. OZ6836/6860 CardBus Controller (rev 62) 0000:00:03.1 CardBus bridge: O2 Micro, Inc. OZ6836/6860 CardBus Controller (rev 62) 0000:00:06.0 VGA compatible controller: Chips and Technologies F65555 HiQVPro (rev c6) 0000:00:08.0 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 01) 0000:00:08.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) 0000:00:08.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01) 0000:00:08.3 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 01) 0000:05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) Linux lspci -v output: 0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (AGP disabled) (rev 02) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64 Memory at 10000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M] 0000:00:03.0 CardBus bridge: O2 Micro, Inc. OZ6836/6860 CardBus Controller (rev 62) Subsystem: Unknown device 0979:6860 Flags: bus master, stepping, slow devsel, latency 168, IRQ 10 Memory at 28040000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=04, sec-latency=176 Memory window 0: 20000000-21fff000 (prefetchable) Memory window 1: 22000000-23fff000 I/O window 0: 00001400-000014ff I/O window 1: 00001800-000018ff 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 0000:00:03.1 CardBus bridge: O2 Micro, Inc. OZ6836/6860 CardBus Controller (rev 62) Subsystem: Unknown device 0979:6860 Flags: bus master, stepping, slow devsel, latency 168, IRQ 10 Memory at fc011000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Bus: primary=00, secondary=05, subordinate=08, sec-latency=176 Memory window 0: 24000000-25fff000 (prefetchable) Memory window 1: 26000000-27fff000 I/O window 0: 00001c00-00001cff I/O window 1: 00002000-000020ff 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 0000:00:06.0 VGA compatible controller: Chips and Technologies F65555 HiQVPro (rev c6) (prog-if 00 [VGA]) Subsystem: Chips and Technologies F65555 HiQVPro Flags: stepping, medium devsel Memory at fd000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M] Expansion ROM at 28000000 [disabled] [size=256K] 0000:00:08.0 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 01) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0 0000:00:08.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) (prog-if 80 [Master]) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64 I/O ports at fcd0 [size=16] 0000:00:08.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 11 I/O ports at fce0 [size=32] 0000:00:08.3 Bridge: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 01) Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 9 0000:05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10) Subsystem: Billionton Systems Inc LNR-100 Family 10/100 Base-TX Ethernet Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 10 I/O ports at 1c00 [size=256] Memory at 26000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=512] Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2

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