March 2004 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Oberon Database
by Dan Parnete 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Hello, I have read this list archives, the documentation inside the distributions, some extra found on the web and I understood. Database is a Tabu word in this community, and is better to not talk about. There is no trace in any distribution (excluding the commercial BlackBox) and the new Bluebottle project doesn't intend to implement one. Ok. It's a choice of live. But don't tell me none of you never needed to put some data altogether. I can't believe nobody extended at list the Library code to more flexible collections management. I saw some database projects started long time ago. Where are this implementations? In other words: if I need a database, have I write it myself? Dan

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Re: [Oberon] Support for Realtek RTL-8139 with Native Oberon
by frey＠inf.ethz.ch 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

> I'm running Native Oberon on a Pentium-II class machine. > How can a network card such as, Realtek RTL-8139 be > configured in Native Oberon ? PCITools.Scan was able to > detect this card as a PCI device. The driver is currently only available for the new Bluebottle OS. http://bluebottle.ethz.ch It should not be too difficult to make a Native Oberon driver out of the Bluebottle OS driver. But... I have no time to do this myself. --Thomas Frey

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VESA code removed in Bluebottle?
by Stefan Salewski 19 Apr '04

19 Apr '04

Hello, in NO there was a module DisplayLinear.mod with a lot of VESA-Code for selection of diplay properties. In current stable release of Bluebottle there is module AosDiplayLinear.mod without any VESA-Code, and I cant find another module containing some VESA stuff. Seem that currerntly only hardcoded display-mode 1024x768 at 60 Hz is supportet. Does someone know the reason why VESA-Code is removed? Best regards Stefan Salewski

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Documentation request
by frey＠inf.ethz.ch 29 Mar '04

29 Mar '04

The following small piece of documentation is new in this release. It is on the user level. If you want to do Programming on the GUI, there is WMScribble.Mod as an introduction to basic window handling (independant of the component system). For the new component system you might check ComponentViewer.Mod together with FractalDemo.Mod and Notepad.Mod as simple examples. For more complex examples, search for "WMComponents" in *.Mod. --Thomas Tutorial User Guide The Graphical User Interface (GUI) of the Bluebottle System is at the same time similar and different from other windowing systems. Nowadays most computer users are well trained to use a mouse for clicking buttons, selecting text and performing drag and drop operations to move items such as windows and texts around the virtual desktop. Since the Bluebottle GUI is similar in this respect, not much needs to be introduced to basic manipulations and working with the system. There are mainly two main reasons why the Bluebottle GUI implements many features common to most other recent GUI systems. First, these features are well known to most of todays computer users and hence ease the problems inherent to learning a new system. Second, many of these features have been selected and evolved for up to twenty years and proved their usefulness. While sticking to known metaphors and interfaces can reduce user's fear of learning a new system, it can also lead to a drop in innovation and hence prevent the emergence of novel interface methods. Therefore, the Bluebottle GUI combines a selection of features from many "worlds" and adds some new ones, too. It is for instance. possible to start commands from any place in a text. Also any text is compatible to any other text in the system. The classic Oberon GUI has earned some fame for its unique features in the Human Computer Interaction (HCI) community (see Raskin, The Human Computer Interface). Some elements of the classical Oberon GUI have been discarded or adapted to increase the acceptance with the users e.g. no "Interclicks" are needed in the new GUI elements. The tiled display was abandoned in favor of a windowing system. The introduced windows support free shapes and translucency (semi-transparency). In this respect, the Bluebottle GUI surpasses many existing windowing implementations. Windows can moved, rescaled etc. while the programs "behind" the windows keep running. Desktop Navigation using the keyboard and the mouse Meta-Mouse-Wheel : zoom in/out Meta-Mouse-Move : pan the viewport if the mouse hits the border of the screen Meta-PgUp : zoom in 2x Meta-PgDn : zoom out 2x Meta-Home : All desktop elements visible Meta-End : zoom to 1:1 Meta-Left : Move viewport left by one screen in the current zoom factor Meta-Right : Move viewport right by one screen in the current zoom factor Meta-Up : Move viewport up by one screen in the current zoom factor Meta-Down : Move viewport down by one screen in the current zoom factor Alt-Shift is a substitute for the Meta key. (The meta key is often marked with symbol that is associated with big software vendor) The Main Menu Ctrl-Esc : Move the main menu to the current screen The menu is created using a number of MenuPage??.XML files, where ?? is a two digit decimal number corresponding to the page position in the menu. 00, 10, 20, ... 90 are reserved for the release Use any other number for a custom design page. It is easiest to open an existing menu page and to edit it according to one's need. Example: Notepad.OpenUTF8 MenuPage10.XML ~ <-- the blue marked text is a command. You can click it with the middle mouse button to execute ! Text Editors Mouse Commands: Navigation Positioning the text cursor : Place the mouse cursor in the text and click the left mouse button Mouse-Wheel : Scroll up/down Alternatively, the scrollbar can be used for scrolling. Selection Place the mouse cursor at the beginning of the intended selection, press (and keep pressed) the left mouse button, move the mouse cursor to the end of the intended selection, release the left mouse button Drag and Drop Select some text (see above), klick into the selected text with the left mouse button. Keep the button pressed and move the mouse to the position where to drag the text. If you want a copy to be dragged, keep the keyboard CTRL key pressed. Starting Commands Position the mouse cursor to a command, then click with the middle mouse button. Make sure command's parameters are delimited with the ~ character. OK : WMTT.Open ~ WMTT.Open alone is not encouraged. Since many commands can run in parallel, the parameters need to be copied before execution. Although a command works even without delimiter, it is a waste of memory. Copying a text style Select the text you want to apply the new style to. Hold down the Alt-key and click into a piece of text that contains the desired style. The text where the format is copied from needs to have the keyboard focus, so that it can detect the Alt-key being pressed. Key Commands : Navigation Left, Right : move the text cursor left and right by one char. Press the CTRL modifier key to move word by word Up, Down : Move the cursor one line up or down PgUp, PgDn : Move cursor one visible page up/down Home, End : Begin or end of line. Press the CTRL-key to jump to the begin or end of the text SHIFT : The SHIFT modifier key can be combined with all the navigation keys above to navigate and select at the same time CTRL-C (or CTRL-INS) : Copy selection to clipboard CTRL-V (or SHIFT-INS) : Paste clipboard CTRL-X (or SHIFT-DELETE) : Cut (= copy to clipboard and delete text) Starting Commands Position the text cursor on a command. Press CTRL-Enter. See Starting Commands in the mouse commands for details. Indentation Select the text to indent and then press Alt-Left or Alt-Right to indent the selection Macros Macros are invoked by pressing the Ins key while the cursor is placed behind a macro name. Macro parameters are separated by ":" Some helpful macros : name:M MODULE ... name:P PROCEDURE ... classname:O TYPE classname = OBJECT ... classname:superclassname:o TYPE classname = OBJECT(superclassname) ... output macros: oi, os, oc take one identifier parameter e.g. identifier:oi AosOut.Int(identifier); ol output line takes no parameters debug macros: di, ds, dc, dr take one identifier parameter e.g. identifier:ds AosOut.String("identifier = "); AosOut.String(identifier); XML macros: name:t <name></name> similar:T The macros are defined in: Notepad.OpenUTF8 Macros.XML ~ Input Method Editors Currently there is only a rudimentary Pinyin Input Method Editor available. It can be installed in with WMPinyinIME.Test ~ After it is installed, press CTRL-Space in any editor to enable/disable the input method editor. To automatically load the WMPinyinIME, edit the AosConfig.XML ( Notepad.OpenUTF8 AosConfig.XML ~ ) Other Functions Storing the desktop In the System menu, press the Mark (mark a waypoint) button to store the state of the programs on the desktop (not all programs support saving their state) Reboot the system Ctrl-Alt-Del (terminates the system and reboots without warning !!!) Backdrop images Backdrop images can be added at any place and in any size on the virtual desktop. Clicking on a backdrop will zoom the backdrop to fullscreen. Backdrops can be removed by clicking them with the right mouse button and selecting Remove. Hint: Try not to put too many backdrops at the same position on the virtual desktop To make the backdrop permanent, you can just save store the desktop by pressing the Mark button in the System menu Window Styles The window style can be changed in the Style menu. To make a style permanent, enter the corresponding command in the AosConfig.XML Autostart section. Programming The programming environment is called PET the "Programmer's Editing Tool" PET.OpenUTF8 HelloWorld.Mod ~ Press the Compile button to compile the current module file. Errors appear at the bottom of the window. Click on an error to position the cursor at the corresponding position in the source text.. To find a position of a Trap, select the the number ???? behind PC=???? in the kernel log. Then press the find PC. If no PC position is selected, PET will ask The left part of the window gives a structural overview over your program. Click into the tree to position the cursor at the position of the clicked structure in the program text. To free a module, call S.Free HelloWorld ~ Installation To install the system, start Oberon and open AosInst.Tool. Follow the instructions. Miscellaneous Bluebottle contains lots of tools, some did not find into the system menu. e.g: AosTV : A TV Application for BT848 compatible TV cards. ( Notepad.OpenOberon AosTV.Tool ~ ) (an improved release will follow about end of April 2004, check the crazy release) Sound : Currently supported sound cards: Aosi810Sound.Install ~ (Intel/Realtek compatibles) EnsoniqSound.Install ~ AosYMF754.Install ~ (Yamaha) MP3Player : See PET.OpenOberon MP3Player.Mod ~ OGGPlayer : Check the crazy release end of April 2004 Network : Currently supported network cards: AosRTL8139.Install ~ Aos3Com90x.Install ~ AosIntel8255x.Install ~ Check: AosNet.Mod, AosIP.Mod, AosUDP.Mod, AosDNS.Mod, AosTCP.Mod Webserver: HTTP/1.1 plugin enabled multi host webserver. See PET.OpenOberon WebHTTPServer.Mod ~ FTP-Server: See PET.OpenOberon WebFTPServer.Mod ~ USB : Support for Mouse and many storage devices. The system is bootable from some usb sticks. See AosUsb.Mod, AosUsbUhci.Mod, AosUsbStorage.Mod, AosUsbMouse.Mod Firewire : Check the crazy release end of April 2004 ARM/XSCALE : If you are interested in the ARM/XSCALE ports write an email to ask(a)bluebottle.ethz.ch (check the website before ! ;-) ) and many more... you have the source... have fun!

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Re (3): [Oberon] n-o trap analysis confuses me
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 28 Mar '04

28 Mar '04

easlab(a)absamail.co.za > Edgar wrote:- > > Nope. C is on the stack not on the heap => No initialisation before use. > * My reference to C being uninitialised, was independant of 'trapping. > Indeed the C of the *.Mod [I believe] was an 'object', hence heap resident, I wrote that alredy but nevertheless I will repeat it. YOUR BELIEF IS WRONG ! My believe is that C is on the stack. > * Unless deliberately designing a 'non-deterministic routine', in general > reading an object/variable before writing/initialising it is an ERROR, So C itself doesn't need any initialisation. There is only an error if a field of C is read before write. Any argument for that ? > > That said I feel that ImgIcon is an example of optimistic programming: > > In rare cases it could be possible that e.g. > > obj := Gadgets.FindPublicObj("Icons.Picture"); > > or > > NEW(iCon); > > fail and then you will get a -14. > This whole matter is very strange: I used the system for years without > the Trap. Then it appeared from some months, and then dissapeared > without me knowing the reason. So I start considering exotic causes. > Like the 'heap load' or a kind of Y2K effect. So my guess is: - The problem was that NEW(iCon) failed because the memory on the heap was fragmented and there wasn't any continous space big enough left. - Fragmentation happens with time and if you open more and more viewers over time this happens. - The Oberon garbage collector collects garbage but can't defragment the heap AFAIK. - So after a reboot this problem is obviously gone because you have an unfragmented heap now. Just a guess but matches the facts I know. Cheers, Edgar

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Re (2): [Oberon] n-o trap analysis confuses me
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 28 Mar '04

28 Mar '04

Edgar wrote:- > I called http://pathology with NO on 486 without problems. > Now some comments to your trap in ImgIcon: > > My reasoning is that: > > 1. C must be initialised before: > Nope. C is on the stack not on the heap => No initialisation before use. > This thread has become complicated: handling different related topics on different levels - and I'm going to add more ! * My reference to C being uninitialised, was independant of 'trapping. Indeed the C of the *.Mod [I believe] was an 'object', hence heap resident, and my simple example was an integer, hence stack resident. * Unless deliberately designing a 'non-deterministic routine', in general reading an object/variable before writing/initialising it is an ERROR, and as I remember flagged as a warning by some compilers. Therefore I believe it unlikely that the *.Mod under consideration [you've deleted my thread back-ground] did so. It remains to be seen what I've missed in thinking that C was read without being first initialised. > That said I feel that ImgIcon is an example of optimistic programming: > In rare cases it could be possible that e.g. > obj := Gadgets.FindPublicObj("Icons.Picture"); > or > NEW(iCon); > fail and then you will get a -14. As Peter wrote:- } Can you elaborate a little Edgar. Does this mean that you too believe that C was not initialised ? If so, I find it necessary to make a BIG story about. This whole matter is very strange: I used the system for years without the Trap. Then it appeared from some months, and then dissapeared without me knowing the reason. So I start considering exotic causes. Like the 'heap load' or a kind of Y2K effect. In fact I KNOW that all my boxes are infested with the 'russian flag boot virus'. So next time I reboot, I'll set the date back a month to when I had the Trap, as a further test. == Chris Glur

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Re (3): [Oberon] n-o trap analysis confuses me
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 28 Mar '04

28 Mar '04

> Edgar wrote: > > Nope. C is on the stack not on the heap => No initialisation before use. > Can you elaborate a little Edgar. In Oberon there are RECORDS (Aka structs in C). If a you have a RECORD variable in a procedure space is allocated on the stack and you can at once work with it. You will never get a Trap -14 with a RECORD variable. (Like the 'C' message record Chris wondered about) OTOH there are POINTER variables which can point to NIL (Nothing) To be able to work with them you either have to assign another POINTER variable to them or you have to allocate memory for them with NEW(<pointer variable>). And if you are in very bad luck the space on your heap is already used up, the garbage collector also doesn't help. So you get probably your variable back pointing at NIL. And when you try to access it BANG: Trap -14 ! I hope this isn't too detailed. But you asked for it :-) Cheers, Edgar

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Re (2): [Oberon] n-o trap analysis confuses me
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 28 Mar '04

28 Mar '04

Hi Chris, I called http://pathology with NO on 486 without problems. Now some comments to your trap in ImgIcon: > My reasoning is that: > 1. C must be initialised before: Nope. C is on the stack not on the heap => No initialisation before use. That said I feel that ImgIcon is an example of optimistic programming: In rare cases it could be possible that e.g. obj := Gadgets.FindPublicObj("Icons.Picture"); or NEW(iCon); fail and then you will get a -14. Cheers, Edgar

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Re (2): [Oberon] NO 11.10.2001: Trap HTMLDocs.WriteCharRef
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 28 Mar '04

28 Mar '04

shark(a)gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca wrote: > es> A trap 7 shouldn't be a big problem BTW. > We're running out of excuses for fixing some of the problems! The biggest excuse is still time :-) I have a wife and two kids and in addition in June we have a bunch of elections for European Parliament, Regional Parliament, County Council and City Council. And I have mandates on the lower end of this list :-) I think about running again. So you can imagine that at the moment I have a lot of phone work finding candidates and organizing meetings ... But for Chris' problems I plan to put fixes on webdav.ethz.ch. Another thing I learned a while ago is about wikis. A great simple way for collaborative collection of information. Better than FAQs and mailing lists IMHO. And there is even a wiki implemented in python (I'm no friend of perl, php). But alas my ISP at the moment doesn't support python correctly. Ok, they say that it will work after they change to Debian at end of March ... So if somebody of you out there has a web server where he can install MoinMoin (hosted on sourceforge) which is a nice WikiWiki written in Python, he could give us a web based collaboration platform. For those who didn't ever hear about wikis: It's a bunch of webpages where anybody (restrictions are possible) can edit using a simple (really easy to grok) markup language. So it's very dynamic but it seems to work. Cheers, Edgar

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Re: [Oberon] n-o trap analysis confuses me
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 27 Mar '04

27 Mar '04

cg> Using Compiler.Compile *\f on PC = PC = 7583 & 5551 Peter wrote: > Is this the trap from the gif image? > Well since I can't produce the trap now; which I had repeatedly done over months, for different re-boots; and all I have as evidence is the old trap-text, I must assume the 2 PCs were where it WAS trapping. And that the traps WERE initiated by some graphic input. > Otherwise, can you narrow down the html > source to where you understand what is > instigating the problem? I never ever suspected that there was anything 'wrong' with the fetched graphics. The problem is at my end and most likely with ME. When I read the source, I [obviously mistakenly] see this simplified pattern:--- PROCEDURE Outer; VAR C: INTEGER; PROCEDURE Inner(arg1: CHAR; arg2: INTEGER); BEGIN ReadVariable(C); END ImgIcon; BEGIN (* Outer *) Inner("X", 2); Acces(C); PossiblyInitialise(C) END IMG; My reasoning is that: 1. C must be initialised before: ReadVariable(C); [in PROC Inner] is executed. 2. since C is local to 'Outer' and its decendants, it must be initialised by a statement in PROC Outer, or by a call to a decendant procedure. 3. Since there is only one decendant procedure of PROC Outer, C must be initialised either before Inner("X", 2) [in PROC Outer] is executed, or before ReadVariable(C) [in PROC Inner] is executed. The range of statements where it must be initialised, is quiet small/managable to examine in the source of HTMLImages.Mod I can't find how/where C is initialised. Where are the bright students, before they go on easter leave ? == Chris Glur.

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