January 2003 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Re: [Oberon] Support for Realtek RTL-8139 with Native Oberon
by frey＠inf.ethz.ch 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

> I'm running Native Oberon on a Pentium-II class machine. > How can a network card such as, Realtek RTL-8139 be > configured in Native Oberon ? PCITools.Scan was able to > detect this card as a PCI device. The driver is currently only available for the new Bluebottle OS. http://bluebottle.ethz.ch It should not be too difficult to make a Native Oberon driver out of the Bluebottle OS driver. But... I have no time to do this myself. --Thomas Frey

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RE: Input.Time
by Michael A. McGaw 10 Feb '03

10 Feb '03

Hello all: I too, use NO in real-time applications, and have a two commercial applications that utilize NO in data acquisition and servo control. I have also spent a fair amount of time implementing a version of the task handling as described by Wirth in his Tasks vs. Threads paper, and see this as a potentially viable path for those who need pre-emptive facilities, within a given class (tasks that have no context to preserve across many activations), using NO as the basis. This is very attractive, as NO is impressively powerful, but is compact enough that it can be understood and modified by one person. BB appears to follow this philosophy as well, and this is a major attraction. I agree with the comments of Dr. Sedlacek, in their entirety: NO and BB certainly have application to real-time projects. However, a serious consideration of which classes of real-time BB may be suited to is warranted. The impact of the GC on deterministic system behavior cannot be underestimated. I can understand the reasons as to why the current GC implementations are in use: when NO and BB are used as testbeds for the trial of concepts and approaches of compiler technology or other systems-level notions, a _functioning_ GC is sufficient. It is when we discuss hard real-time needs that the GC is found to be a significant issue. I personally can see great application for BB in hard real-time: I can easily envision applications in which one CPU is loaded very heavily handling multi-loop servo control and data acquisition. Another CPU would be free to offer additional services that are tightly time coordinated with the first, but that could not be accomodated as background tasks due to resource utilization. Now, there is an argument to made that faster CPUs come all of the time, and one might just wait to use a faster CPU (as the primary). The problem is, designers wish always to take advantage of this performance increase. Here, the problem is not neccessarily software largess in the commonly understood sense, but, compact software that requires increasing compute bandwidth. Another use for the multitasking (if not multiprocessing) is in applications in which a given task must be preemptable, and yet must preserve its state or context. Here, I am thinking of (a kind of) binary tree processing that is regularly, periodically interrupted (e.g., hard deadlines) so that I/O can be performed based on the tree processing result at that time, and where the state of the recursion must be preserved. This latter example is all but impossible to implement under NO, as far as I have been able to see, but could be easily done in BB. I have not studied the internals of BB to know what may be possible, but, I have considered the following with regard to NO, and its GC: 1. Remove automatic GC, and instead implement the calling of the GC under user control. This must be done with care, as some system elements require calling GC periodically to function properly. 2. Examine the core system for object usage, and redesign, where necessary and possible, using only statically allocated structures. Without the interface handling, the need for dynamic structures diminishes, and, in some embedded systems, the interface is dispensed with. This approach leaves the management of the GC totally at the user's descretion. 3. Remove GC and use Dispose (!) 4. Implement some type of incremental GC, that is bounded (e.g., deterministic) in its behavior. I have done 1, upon occasion. 4. appears to be the most desireable state of affairs, from my perspective. I would think that 4. would be a very interesting project, unfortunately, it is beyond my skill (I am trained in aerospace engineering, not computer science). An enterprising student may find this problem an attractive project, however(!). Thanks, Mike Michael McGaw, Ph.D. McGaw Technology, Inc.

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Ram & processors
by Gérard Meunier 06 Feb '03

06 Feb '03

Hello, I need two informations for my programs under BB: the amount of available ram and the number of processors. I think that AosBoot.memTop gives the first answer. Is there a more portable way to get this information? I don't know where I can get the second answer. AosProcessors.allProcessors seems interesting, but it is not exported. So... Thanks for clues. Gérard

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Some questions about BB evolution.
by Yuri M. Skripkah 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Hello , All. Glad to see activity in mail list - this is right sign what great work continued. I have some questions about BB. a) Aos look as good system. Thanks Pieter and others. But without application it will die. Native BB application will be late (may be...) Now primary application is Oberon system. But it not use new features from BB and still one task, one window. Is anybody planing what Oberon active documents, modules etc. must (if need and explicit) have own task in BB? And visually own window like Plug-in Oberon? b) Simply porting application look not reasonable - we already have BSD, Linux ,(Windows, at all) where a lot of application work fine in C/Unix environment and emulate env. is not good idea. ( Except learning purposes ) Who need Apache-featured web-server under BB if we have Apache under Unix? In which fields BB application will use, as suppose it programmers? If it will simply general purposes - without strong rules it will garbage bin ( Linux) and simply written on 'Pascal' ( Linux 'garbage' sometimes very useful, sure, but huge and knotty) c) This question preferably to Thomas. Build from Jan,14th have better speed. But I not understood, why program using assembler really slower than Win(tm) and X analogies. (I'm not a programmer and reading sources can't help me :() Only differences at user look is transparency. Of course, I can use more powerful CPU. But. Do You like intention make redraw window after dragging or scrolling desktop? As is in other GUIs? This setting will useful for all cases of slow or loaded CPU. I know what You very busy. This is for uncertain future. -- Best regards, Yuri, lazy user mailto:yurix@i.com.ua

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Input.Time
by Gérard Meunier 31 Jan '03

31 Jan '03

Hello, I've done some time measurements of program runs on Bluebottle, and I'm not sure that Input.Time() works correctly. I don't know if this fact is important, but my program uses the gc a lot. I find a discrepancy of ten times, more or less, between my watch (~ 60 s) and Input.Time() (6 s). My config string contains the item 'MHz="600"', which is right. Any ideas ? Regards. Gérard

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Re (2): [Oberon] Input.Time
by peter_easthope＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 31 Jan '03

31 Jan '03

Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:45:50, Josef Sedlacek commented, > Aos would be very usefull for industrial control. Josef, can you cite an example or two where you would prefer to use Aos rather than Oberon for industrial control. Thanks, Peter E. http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/peter.html

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(no subject)
by peter_easthope＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 26 Jan '03

26 Jan '03

Hi Peter, first I will admit that PPPMain.InstPPP is sort of a hack. I did put a lot of the original stuff I got just in comments to keep it at hand if perhaps needed it in the future. "Peter Easthope" <peter_easthope(a)gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca> wrote: > Folk, > Here are a few questions. > PPPMain.InstPPP does > Texts.OpenScanner(S, Oberon.Par.text, Oberon.Par.pos); > reads the parameters for the command from this line > in Oberon.Text, > Device0 = { "PPPMain.InstPPP", "COM1 \silent"} > and then uses InInt(i) to read an integer, 4. There are these > two lines of code. > > (*MRUWant*)InInt(i); INCL(wo.O, NegMRU); wo.MRU:=1500; > IF HDLC.debug THEN Debug.String("MRUWant "); Debug Copy/Paste problem. Doesn't make sense really :-( You can see that I copied these lines from below. Doesn't hurt as it is but I changed it now to: (*MRUWant*) INCL(wo.O, NegMRU); wo.MRU:=1500; IF HDLC.debug THEN Debug.String("MRUWant "); Debug.Int(wo.MRU, 5) END; So it's less confusing. > Hopefully a nice new update of PPP.Tool can appear. I'm thinking of where to put it. Because I don't think it's necessary at the moment to send an update to ETH just for documentation. > es> Another point is that I would like to collect information > on problems with PPP on Oberon somewhere. I don't have > the urge to take every article concerning PPP from > the mailing list and put it somewhere else. > > A by-product of the study of PPP is a collection of > troubleshooting tips, notes, suggestions and small > modifications to the PPP*.Mods. Edgar has first > refusal on this material and my ego imagines some > of it included in a future release. No problem with that. You can send me your stuff and I can put it on my site as a version under development before sending it to ETH eventually. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/foren/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein -- Oberon(a)inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems http://www.lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon ------------------------------------------------------------ Message 3 1/2/2003 1:16 PM Subject: Oberon PPP From: Edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de,Internet To: Peter Easthope Copies: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de,Internet Hi Peter, Chris wrote: > > Hopefully a nice new update of PPP.Tool can appear. > * Yes, but let's seek a frame work (methodology) where a > continual process of improvement is possible. So let's see whether we can help him. He's right in that a "methodology" is needed. So here are my ideas which are open to discussion. I don't have much time at the moment for PPP but I'm open for contributions and can still give hints for some problems. You seem to be interested at the moment to solve the problem of connecting to a certain server (Like me a couple of years ago :-) So how could we organize work efficiently ? Here some thoughts: - As long as I feel responsible for PPP a starting point could be www.edgarschwarz.de/oberon/ppp which means just giving PPP stuff an own page. - There I would put a current version for download. Perhaps not only an archive but also single files and a change history ? - A link to material which you want to contribute on your server or some means for you to upload to my site ? The link would be easy and fast to implement. Uploading per HTML form of certain files to my site I already implemented for non Oberon purposes. - www.edgar-schwarz.de/foren/oberon for discussions about problems. This would collect discussions on Oberon PPP instead of hiding it in the general mailing list. Do you think this would count as a "methodology" for Chris :-? Cheers, EdgarSchwarz -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/foren/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------- To: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de Subject: Re: Oberon PPP Hello Edgar, es> You seem to be interested at the moment to solve the problem of connecting to a certain server (Like me a couple of years ago :-) Yes. es> So how could we organize work efficiently ? es> www.edgarschwarz.de/oberon/ppp - There I would put a current version for download. Good. es> Perhaps not only an archive but also single files That will work well until an interface changes and people complain that a new Obj file doesn't work with their old PPP. People get into trouble where shortcuts are possible. es> ... change history ? Very useful. es> - A link to material which you want to contribute on your server or some means for you to upload to my site ? I prefer one "latest release" of the source and zipped Obj files rather than different flavours from different people. Otherwise people will ask "who's version of PPP is best?" We see too much of this in Linux. Ideally the release will have all the "best" features with switches between alternative choices, if any exist. Background documentation is another matter. No harm in the descriptions and histories of changes from different people being on different sites. Beneficial in some ways. es> www.edgar-schwarz.de/foren/oberon for discussions about problems. Don't have a dictionary handy. Is "foren" the German spelling or is it a typing error? (English: forum) es> Do you think this would count as a "methodology" for Chris :-? Difficult to say how he will respond. More structure and organization requires more housekeeping. What you propose seems workable. Perhaps send the same description to Chris and find what he says. Regards, Peter E. ---------------------------------------------------------- Message 1 1/7/2003 12:45 AM Subject: Re: Notes pertaining to Oberon PPP, 2003-01-06. From: Edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de,Internet To: Peter Easthope Copies: fischer(a)inf.ethz.ch,Internet muller(a)inf.ethz.ch,Internet edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de,Internet Hi Peter, > The comments translated to English are meant to be > included along with Edgar's original comments. > So many North Americans are unable to read German. Should have done them in English from the beginning. > *** System Issues > > NetSystem.Mod specifies this syntax. > > NetSystem.SetUser { service ":" ["//"] [ user [ ":" password ] "@" ] host > [ "/" ] } "~" > > Prior to availability of PPP, the terms "service" and "host" > were OK. They now seem a little inappropriate and confusing. > For example, DIAL is not a host and pap is a protocol rather > than a service. I suggest replacing "service" with "servicetype" > and "host" with "servicename" in descriptions of > NetSystem.SetUser. > > These are two options for Device0 in Oberon.Text. > Device0 = { "PPPMain.InstPPP", "COM1 \silent"} > Device0 = { "SLIP.InstallDevice", "COM1 compressed"} > These are wrong in the sense that "silent" and "compressed" > need be applied to specific routes of connection rather than > to all PPP and all SLIP connections respectively. > > Terms Device0 and Route0 suggest multiple Devices and > multiple Routes. Logically, the parameters of a service, as > supplied to NetSystem.SetUser, along with the name of a > dial script and a Device<m> might be associated with > Route<n> in Oberon.Text. I wonder whether consideration > has already been given to a command such as NetSystem.Connect > Route<n>? The designer of Oberon.Text (PJM?) must have > thought through all of this long ago. > Some months ago the Native Oberon mailing list received > a message questioning the redundancy of the arguments > of the CALL command in the dial script when a PAP service > is accessed. A small benefit of the hypothetical > NetSystem.Connect command could be elimination of this > redundancy. These are valid questions I also pondered with. They must be answered together with the NetSystem people. Probably no change will be possible for NO. But perhaps in Bluebottle NetSystem is different. I will have a look. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein --------------------------------------------------------- To: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de Subject: Re: Notes pertaining to Oberon PPP, 2003-01-06. Edgar, es> ... must be answered together with the NetSystem people. NO allows multiple devices and routes. NetBase.MaxDevices and NetIP.MaxRoutes are both set to 2 and these limits are easily increased up to 10. This allows definition in Oberon.Text of various devices with differing options. For example these two cases might be useful. Device0 = { "PPPMain.InstPPP", "COM1 \silent"} Device1 = { "PPPMain.InstPPP", "COM1"} I will explain this in a revision of the notes. Thanks, Peter ---------------------------------------------------------- To: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de Subject: Failure in negotiation of IP address. Edgar, Here is a question about negotiation of the IP address with a Vicom server. Seems best to consult you before making rash changes. Immediately after the report "LCP is finally ready!!" Oberon PPP sends an IPCP Conf-Req with a zero IP address, message id = 01. In response to this Conf-Req Vicom sends a Conf-Nak containing an address (C0A8B7FD). This is exactly what I expect according to RFC 1332. Oberon PPP replies with Conf-Req, id = 02 containing the address just received from Vicom. This response is not described in RFC 1332 and I wonder whether Vicom is expecting Conf-Ack. Vicom appears to interpret this as a rejection of the proposed address. It sends back a Conf-Req, id = 08, with the address incremented by 1 (C0A8B7FE). Oberon PPP rejects message id=8. A logical response since it just accepted the address in message id=1. Vicom never seems to recognize that the first address was accepted and continues to offer the second address. Oberon PPP continues to reject it. Pity that RFC 1332 is not more explicit about this. The only solution I see is to try changing the message acknowledging the first address, from Conf-Req to Conf-Ack. Is this sensible? Thanks, Peter E. ------------------------------------------ 2.1/es/25.04.2000 \silentMRUWant 4MRUAllowAsyWant 00000000 AsyAllow FFFFFFFFTO 5myNetmask Starting receiving-loop Pustekuchen, macht Devicepolling Provider: GulfNet3 papname: peter pappasswd: retinue$ FSM.LowerUp protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: Initial FSM.Open protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: Closed 22:18:07CheckPacket: len= 2 0D0A Length too short, length: 2 22:18:07CheckPacket: len= 34 FF03C021 0102001C 01040200 02060000 00000304 C0230506 037BE2FD 07020802 8769 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: Stopped 0102001C 01040200 02060000 00000304 C0230506 037BE2FD 07020802 FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: 2 reset CI FSM.SendConfReq protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: 1 state: Stopped LCP.AddCI protocol: LCP - channel: PPP MRU AsyncMap FSM.SendData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP code: ConfReq state: Stopped id: 1 0101000E 010405DC 02060000 0000 22:18:07SendPacket: len = 20 FF03C021 0101000E 010405DC 02060000 00004F35 LCP.ReCI: AuthType x =-16349 LCP.ReCI: NegUPap added to his options RejMagic RejPFComp RejACComp FSM.SendData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: ReqSent id: 2 0402000E 0506037B E2FD0702 0802 22:18:07SendPacket: len = 20 FF03C021 0402000E 0506037B E2FD0702 0802A8F7 22:18:08CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:08CheckPacket: len= 20 FF03C021 0201000E 010405DC 02060000 000071B6 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 0201000E 010405DC 02060000 0000 FSM.ReceiveConfAck protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: 1 22:18:08CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:08CheckPacket: len= 24 FF03C021 01040012 01040200 02060000 00000304 C0233CBD FSM.ReceiveData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: AckRcvd 01040012 01040200 02060000 00000304 C023 FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: 4 LCP.ReCI: AuthType x =-16349 LCP.ReCI: NegUPap added to his options FSM.SendData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP code: ConfAck state: AckRcvd id: 4 02040012 01040200 02060000 00000304 C023 22:18:08SendPacket: len = 24 FF03C021 02040012 01040200 02060000 00000304 C02304BC Main.LCPUp: auth requested by peer 22:18:08SendPacket: len = 25 FF03C023 01010013 05706574 65720872 6574696E 75652404 7A 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 96 FF03C023 0201005A 55736572 6E616D65 2F706173 73776F72 64206163 63657074 65640050 4150206C 6F67696E 2072656A 65637465 642C2075 7365726E 616D6520 00557365 726E616D 652F7061 7373776F 72642072 656A6563 74656400 50417ED8 LCP is finally ready!! FSM.LowerUp protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: Initial FSM.Open protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: Closed FSM.SendConfReq protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 1 state: Closed FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfReq state: Closed id: 1 0101000A 03060000 0000 22:18:09SendPacket: len = 16 FF038021 0101000A 03060000 00001328 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 28 FF038021 01060016 0206002D 0F010306 C0A8B7FE 8106C0A8 B7FE376A FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 01060016 0206002D 0F010306 C0A8B7FE 8106C0A8 B7FE FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 6 FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: ReqSent id: 6 0406000A 0206002D 0F01 22:18:09SendPacket: len = 16 FF038021 0406000A 0206002D 0F016437 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 16 FF038021 0301000A 0306C0A8 B7FD9DD9 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 0301000A 0306C0A8 B7FD FSM.ReceiveConfigureNak/Reject protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 1 FSM.SendConfReq protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 2 state: ReqSent FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfReq state: ReqSent id: 2 0102000A 0306C0A8 B7FD 22:18:09SendPacket: len = 16 FF038021 0102000A 0306C0A8 B7FDD457 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 22 FF038021 01080010 0306C0A8 B7FE8106 C0A8B7FE BE53 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 01080010 0306C0A8 B7FE8106 C0A8B7FE FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 8 FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: ReqSent id: 8 04080004 22:18:09SendPacket: len = 10 FF038021 04080004 4945 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 16 FF038021 0202000A 0306C0A8 B7FDBD23 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 0202000A 0306C0A8 B7FD FSM.ReceiveConfAck protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 2 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 0 22:18:09CheckPacket: len= 22 FF038021 010A0010 0306C0A8 B7FE8106 C0A8B7FE EAC3 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: AckRcvd 010A0010 0306C0A8 B7FE8106 C0A8B7FE FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 10 FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: AckRcvd id: 10 040A0004 ---------------------------------------------------------- Message 2 1/9/2003 5:20 AM Subject: Re: Failure in negotiation of IP address. From: Edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de,Internet To: Peter Easthope Copies: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de,Internet Hi Peter, it seems you are beginning to see the light ! The problem is that this topic in 1332 is VERY short. > Immediately after the report "LCP is finally ready!!" > Oberon PPP sends an IPCP Conf-Req with a zero IP > address, message id = 01. Requesting the server to give me an address. > In response to this Conf-Req Vicom sends a Conf-Nak > containing an address (C0A8B7FD). This is exactly > what I expect according to RFC 1332. Agreed. > Oberon PPP replies with Conf-Req, id = 02 containing > the address just received from Vicom. This response is > not described in RFC 1332 Yes. I guess it means to show that the address was accepted. > and I wonder whether Vicom is expecting Conf-Ack. Possible. Or no response at all ? Saying: you wanted an address, I sent it and so it's done. > Vicom appears to interpret this as a rejection of > the proposed address. It sends back a Conf-Req, > id = 08, with the address incremented by 1 (C0A8B7FE). As I read 1332 this would mean that Vicom is telling me his address. So the question is whether it is already available or has to negotiated with a configure-nak (Paragraph 2). You could try to take this as server address ?!? > Pity that RFC 1332 is not more explicit about this. You say it :-( > The only solution I see is to try changing the message > acknowledging the first address, from Conf-Req > to Conf-Ack. Is this sensible? Could work. Or perhaps no reply at all. Here some guesswork seems to be necessary. Perhaps a log with Vicom together with Linux or Windows could tell you what Vicom expects. Regards, Edgar ---------------------------------------------------------- To: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de Subject: Re: Failure in negotiation of IP address. Edgar, es> As I read 1332 this would mean that Vicom is telling me his address. ... You could try to take this as server address ?!? Possible, but according to the human administrator, the the Vicom machine is 142.31.196.10. es> Here some guesswork seems to be necessary. Perhaps a log with Vicom together with Linux or Windows could tell you what Vicom expects. Will pursue these suggestions. Thanks for your help. Regards, Peter E. ---------------------------------------------------------- To: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de Subject: Negotiation of IP address. Hello Edgar, Phew! This is no cake-walk! es> Perhaps a log with Vicom together with Linux or Windows could tell you what Vicom expects. Got a log with MacOS 7.6 connecting to Vicom but make little sense of it. Annotations appear repeatedly and everything else is binary. Not enlightening. No other system is available for now. There is something in PPP.Log which I missed earlier. The frames are now numbered and the message id's and padding are different. Otherwise it is the same as the log sent about a week ago. In frame 12, id=1, (see following) Oberon asks Vicom for an IP address by sending a 0 address. In frame 17, id= 1, Vicom sends an address with a Conf-Nak code. Thus far, all according to RFC 1332 (as I understand). Frame 18 is a Conf-Req from Oberon to Vicom containing the address just proposed---with id 2 rather than 1. pe> ... whether Vicom is expecting Conf-Ack. es> Possible. Or no response at all ? Saying: you wanted an address, I sent it and so it's done. Without a confirmation Vicom is never sure the proposed address was transmitted without corruption. Please let me know what you think of this. If you approve of frame 18 having id 1 (as a test at least), can you suggest how this might be accomplished? (Seems that frame 18 originates in PPPFSM.ReceiveConfNakRej at these lines. | ReqSent, AckSent: HDLC.UNTIMEOUT(f.HDLCConfig, Timeout); SendConfReq(f, newtransmit) (* They didn't agree to what we wanted - try another request *) Is Conf-Naq used in a special way in address negotiation? If I simply change SendConfReq(f, newtransmit) to SendConfReq(f, retransmit) will other cases be "messed up".) Thanks, Peter E. 2.1/es/25.04.2000 \silent MRUWant 1500 MRUAllow AsyWant 00000000 AsyAllow FFFFFFFF TO 5 myNetmask set to 255.255.255.0 Starting receiving-loop Pustekuchen, macht Devicepolling Provider: GulfNet3 papname: peter pappasswd: retinue$ FSM.LowerUp protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: Initial FSM.Open protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: Closed ->->-> Frame 0 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 2 0D0A Length too short, length: 2 ->->-> Frame 1 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 34 FF03C021 01EC001C 010405DC 02060000 00000304 C0230506 018BC890 07020802 6135 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: Stopped 01EC001C 010405DC 02060000 00000304 C0230506 018BC890 07020802 FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: -20 reset CI FSM.SendConfReq protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: 1 state: Stopped LCP.AddCI protocol: LCP - channel: PPP MRU AsyncMap FSM.SendData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP code: ConfReq state: Stopped id: 1 0101000E 010405DC 02060000 0000 <-<-<- Frame 2 going to peer. 14:01:00 SendPacket: len = 20 FF03C021 0101000E 010405DC 02060000 00004F35 LCP.ReCI: AuthType x =-16349 LCP.ReCI: NegUPap added to his options RejMagic RejPFComp RejACComp FSM.SendData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: ReqSent id: -20 04EC000E 0506018B C8900702 0802 <-<-<- Frame 3 going to peer. 14:01:00 SendPacket: len = 20 FF03C021 04EC000E 0506018B C8900702 0802EA3A ->->-> Frame 4 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 5 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 20 FF03C021 0201000E 010405DC 02060000 000071B6 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 0201000E 010405DC 02060000 0000 FSM.ReceiveConfAck protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: 1 ->->-> Frame 6 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 7 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 24 FF03C021 01EE0012 010405DC 02060000 00000304 C0232826 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP state: AckRcvd 01EE0012 010405DC 02060000 00000304 C023 FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: LCP - channel: PPP id: -18 LCP.ReCI: AuthType x =-16349 LCP.ReCI: NegUPap added to his options FSM.SendData protocol: LCP - channel: PPP code: ConfAck state: AckRcvd id: -18 02EE0012 010405DC 02060000 00000304 C023 <-<-<- Frame 8 going to peer. 14:01:00 SendPacket: len = 24 FF03C021 02EE0012 010405DC 02060000 00000304 C0231027 Main.LCPUp: auth requested by peer <-<-<- Frame 9 going to peer. 14:01:00 SendPacket: len = 25 FF03C023 01010013 05706574 65720872 6574696E 75652404 7A ->->-> Frame 10 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 11 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 96 FF03C023 0201005A 55736572 6E616D65 2F706173 73776F72 64206163 63657074 65640050 4150206C 6F67696E 2072656A 65637465 642C2075 7365726E 616D6520 00557365 726E616D 652F7061 7373776F 72642072 656A6563 74656400 50417ED8 LCP is finally ready!! FSM.LowerUp protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: Initial FSM.Open protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: Closed FSM.SendConfReq protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 1 state: Closed FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfReq state: Closed id: 1 0101000A 03060000 0000 <-<-<- Frame 12 going to peer. 14:01:00 SendPacket: len = 16 FF038021 0101000A 03060000 00001328 ->->-> Frame 13 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 14 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 28 FF038021 01F00016 0206002D 0F010306 C0A8B6FE 8106C0A8 B6FE5B2E FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 01F00016 0206002D 0F010306 C0A8B6FE 8106C0A8 B6FE FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: -16 FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: ReqSent id: -16 04F0000A 0206002D 0F01 <-<-<- Frame 15 going to peer. 14:01:00 SendPacket: len = 16 FF038021 04F0000A 0206002D 0F0162B9 ->->-> Frame 16 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 17 received from peer. 14:01:00CheckPacket: len = 16 FF038021 0301000A 0306C0A8 B6FD45C0 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 0301000A 0306C0A8 B6FD FSM.ReceiveConfigureNak/Reject protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 1, reqID: 1 FSM.SendConfReq protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 2 state: ReqSent FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfReq state: ReqSent id: 2 0102000A 0306C0A8 B6FD <-<-<- Frame 18 going to peer. 14:01:00 SendPacket: len = 16 FF038021 0102000A 0306C0A8 B6FD0C4E ->->-> Frame 19 received from peer. 14:01:01CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 20 received from peer. 14:01:01CheckPacket: len = 22 FF038021 01F20010 0306C0A8 B6FE8106 C0A8B6FE 0541 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 01F20010 0306C0A8 B6FE8106 C0A8B6FE FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: -14 FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: ReqSent id: -14 04F20004 <-<-<- Frame 21 going to peer. 14:01:01 SendPacket: len = 10 FF038021 04F20004 07BA ->->-> Frame 22 received from peer. 14:01:01CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 23 received from peer. 14:01:01CheckPacket: len = 16 FF038021 0202000A 0306C0A8 B6FD653A FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: ReqSent 0202000A 0306C0A8 B6FD FSM.ReceiveConfAck protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: 2 ->->-> Frame 24 received from peer. 14:01:01CheckPacket: len = 0 ->->-> Frame 25 received from peer. 14:01:01CheckPacket: len = 22 FF038021 01F40010 0306C0A8 B6FE8106 C0A8B6FE E8F9 FSM.ReceiveData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP state: AckRcvd 01F40010 0306C0A8 B6FE8106 C0A8B6FE FSM.ReceiveConfigureRequest protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP id: -12 FSM.SendData protocol: IPCP - channel: PPP code: ConfRej state: AckRcvd id: -12 04F40004 <-<-<- Frame 26 going to peer. 14:01:01 SendPacket: len = 10 FF038021 04F40004 DE6C ------------------------------------------------------------ To: Edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de Subject: Oberon PPP Edgar, es> Here some guesswork seems to be necessary. Perhaps a log with Vicom together with Linux or Windows could tell you what Vicom expects. Yes, you are correct. I will need to get a good log, probably from Linux. I tried changing the id of message 18 but the negotiation was no better. Without reliable information I am just "shooting in the dark". Regards, Peter E. ----------------------------------------------------- bcc: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de Subject: Re: Negotiation of IP address. Edgar, es> Sorry for not replying earlier. But I have a lot of work at the moment. I will try to give your problem a look on the weekend. Thanks but don't spend more time on it for now. I've worked out what is happening and can get a connection. A year or so ago, you must have done the same "repair" as I have done but somehow the modification was not included in the PPP release in Native 24.08.2002. If I had studied your original repair more carefully, might have avoided some strife. Soon I will describe the matter in the PPPChanges.Text and send you a copy. Regards, Peter E. ----------------------------------------------------- bcc: edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de bcc: peter_easthope(a)gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca Subject: PPPChanges.Text Greetings Edgar, PPPChanges.Text and my modified PPP*.Mod files are now available here. http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/OberonPPP/ To get the descriptive notes, open the URI with Desktops.OpenDoc ^, select the link PPPChanges.Text and execute HyperDocTools.Fetch PPPChanges.Text ~. Wednesday I will be back at UBC and will be able to put a link to this in my Web page. Then I can mention it in the Native Oberon list. Hopefully that will make Chris G. happy for a short while. =8~) If you want anything corrected or changed, just let me know. Regards, Peter E. ------------------------------------------------ http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/peter.html

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Re: [Oberon] Defining code for MM + MR
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 25 Jan '03

25 Jan '03

Aubrey McIntosh wrote: > In V4, the "Viewers" each have "Handlers" and it is the > procedure Handle where the MM+MR interclick is interpreted. > > I looked at the S3 (BlueBottle 5/22/02) procedure TextFrames.Handle, which > handles the type Oberon.InputMsg with the procedure TextFrames.Edit. > In that procedure, the keys variable handles the various mouse clicks. OK, that explains it. > The MM+MR command, for example, is located deep under > IF X < F.X + Min(F.left, barW) THEN > ... > ELSE > ... > ELSIF 1 IN Keys THEN > ... > IF (pos >= 0) & ~(2 IN keysum) THEN CallCmd(OpenCmd, F, pos, FALSE) END Yes in PROCEDURE Edit*, also CONST OpenCmd = "Edit.Open"; is what makes MM+MR open an "Edit.Open" frame type. And for Script.Open types, the coding is very similar except that: CONST OpenCmd = "Script.Open". But ET.Mod has many calls to TextFrames.Handle(p1,p2). So it is seen that ET would be expected to spawn Edit.Open frame types from MM+MR. It could be a big job to change it ? -- Chris Glur.

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Re: [Oberon] Programming Editor
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

Aubrey McIntosh wrote: > > Can some kind soul provide a Tool (or name some existing ones) that > > have a few relevant commands for the { Edit Compile } Store cycle? > > I got no reply to the same questions. > Eth 'insiders' are obviously hiding the good stuff from us. > I recently revisited 1980's DOS Turbo-Pascal Edit/Compile/Store > facilities - much more productive than what I have to use with S3. John M. Drake wrote: > First of all I'm in no way an ETH "insider" yet > I'm very much aware of the tools ET and PET. > ET is available from the Applications.Tool that > comes installed with EVERY S3 implementation! > PET can be downloaded from Oberon PUBLIC FTP > site: > > ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/ETHOberon/Contrib/Pet/ > > That being said I rarely use PET or ET. I find > the default tools sufficient and FAR BETTER than > TP for DOS! I use TextPopups.Tool (again it's > available to all) to navigate my source code. I skipped this because: * It doesn't open clean with Edit.Open - All *.Tool which don't need 'hot links' should run under the minimum system * Desktops.OpenDoc TextPopups.Tool doesn't word-wrap and overflows the VGA 80 char width of the UserTrak. There should be a spec. for *.Tool width, which is complied with. * It reads:"..when clicking outside the text." 1. n-o doesn't "click"; Microsoft does. 2. outside the text" was not understood. > With 2 mouse clicks I can immediately jump to > any procedure or type defined in the module I'm > working on. I don't have leisure to browse, surf or try applications which have doubtful usefulness; so I appreciate your description what TextPopups.Tool can do. { That's the point that I was trying to make to Peter Easthope: his donated pointers from having 'gone ahead' are cost effective contributions to those who come behind.} > Tools.OpenMod lets me jump > directly to procedures defined in other modules, > provided that the module name isn't aliased. That seems marvelous. I have no Tools.OpenMod ?!! > When programming under S3 I usually have the the > Programming.Tool open in the system track so that I have > direct access to the Watson and Builder tools. I have no Programming.Tool . Watson is in my <personal>.Tool and Popup would provide all the Builder.<commands> ? Please tell more about Tools.OpenMod . -------- With your description of what TextPopups.Tool can do, I spent time to discover: 1. Edit.Open type files are not handled. 2. "clicking outside the text" means: 'in a Desktops.OpenDoc type text, hold down MM (1.5 secs. seems a long time - definitely not a 'click'), in an area free of 'visible' text (spaces qualify). But still for my version alpha?beta 2001:- * SYS:TGZ.Mod > Compiler.Compile * == compiling TGZ 1940 == OK. * Devlp:CRGtrace.Mod > popupMenu == writes to System.Log: "pos 11981 err 3 illegal character in string" without any menu selection !! Yet Compiler.Compile * writes: "compiling CRGtrace (in use) 2016". So Compiler.Compile * via the popupMenu has a problem, with a source which Compiler.Compile * from the mouse compiles/runs. I.e. the popupMenu writes an 'err 3' *before* any selection for this particular source. Then when I introduce an error, popupMenu > Builder.NextError does'nt show it, but instead leaves a red arrow at the chosen location of "clicking outside the text". It's interesting that the deficiency in the edit/compile/save tools is rectified by a 'gotcha' which has the main features of TP for DOS. But I think TP stacked the texts - not save/retieve files. When I pop the unsaved SYS:TGZ.Mod, my introduced error is lost. Of course the ability to pick PROCS and TYPES is great. But unless I can locate errors (as Edit.Locate can do) I can't use the TextPopups.Tool . -- Chris Glur.

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Tabs in Script or TextDocs
by pat＠picoworks.com 23 Jan '03

23 Jan '03

Has Script or TextDocs been extended anywhere to handle right, center or decimal tabs? "Compiler Construction" by Dr Wirth, produced on Oberon, shows right tabs in the table of contents but it may have been produced on V4. Thanks, Pat

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