October 2004 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Oberon Database
by Dan Parnete 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Hello, I have read this list archives, the documentation inside the distributions, some extra found on the web and I understood. Database is a Tabu word in this community, and is better to not talk about. There is no trace in any distribution (excluding the commercial BlackBox) and the new Bluebottle project doesn't intend to implement one. Ok. It's a choice of live. But don't tell me none of you never needed to put some data altogether. I can't believe nobody extended at list the Library code to more flexible collections management. I saw some database projects started long time ago. Where are this implementations? In other words: if I need a database, have I write it myself? Dan

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Re: [Oberon] Support for Realtek RTL-8139 with Native Oberon
by frey＠inf.ethz.ch 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

> I'm running Native Oberon on a Pentium-II class machine. > How can a network card such as, Realtek RTL-8139 be > configured in Native Oberon ? PCITools.Scan was able to > detect this card as a PCI device. The driver is currently only available for the new Bluebottle OS. http://bluebottle.ethz.ch It should not be too difficult to make a Native Oberon driver out of the Bluebottle OS driver. But... I have no time to do this myself. --Thomas Frey

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon XML database and webforum
by Luc Bläser 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

Dear Mr. Drake The DXP-webpage facility should be documented by a short tutorial in DynamicWebpagePlugin.Text. The other facility, the object-oriented database is for enabling persistence of Oberon objects, which fulfil several programmed preconditions. This system is designed to be sufficiently powerful for small database sizes and also features transactional atomic as well as recoverability from unexpected system shutdowns. Such a persistent object should be a sub-type of the type 'PrevalenceSystem.PersistentObject' and implements three overridden procedures. The procedure 'Externalize' converts the actual state of the object to XML and 'Internalize' does so vice-versa. Furthermore, 'GetReferencedObjects' should return all other objects that are directly referenced by the object and should be also stored in the database (to enable garbage colection etc.) Sketch of an example: Person = OBJECT(PrevalenceSystem.PersistentObject) VAR name: ARRAY 40 OF CHAR; PROCEDURE Externalize(): XML.Content; BEGIN RETURN WebStd.CreateXMLText(name) END Externalize; PROCEDURE Internalize(xml: XML.Content); VAR s: Utilities.String; BEGIN s := GetXMLCharContent(XML.Container(xml)) END Internalize; PROCEDURE GetReferrencedObjects*() : PersistentObjectList; BEGIN RETURN NIL END GetReferencedObjects; END Person; A module, that provides a new persistent object type also has to specify a corresponding persistent type descriptor and a creator function, to obtain a new instance of the corresponding type. The predefined procedure 'GetPersistentObjectDescriptors' returns a list of all offered persistent object type descriptors of a module. MODULE MyPersonModule; (* implementation of the above object type Person *) VAR personTypeDesc: PrevalenceSystem.PersistentObjectDescriptor; PROCEDURE GetPersistentObjectDescriptors*(par:PTR): PTR; VAR descSet : PrevalenceSystem.PersistentObjectDescSet; descs: ARRAY 1 OF PrevalenceSystem.PersistentObjectDescriptor; BEGIN descs[0] := personTypeDesc; NEW(descSet, descs); RETURN descSet END GetPersistentObjectDescriptors; PROCEDURE CreateNewPerson(): PrevalenceSystem.PersistentObject; VAR obj: Person; BEGIN NEW(obj); RETURN obj END CreateNewPerson; BEGIN NEW(personTypeDesc, "MyPersonModule", "Person", CreateNewPerson) END MyPersonModule. In the AosCOnfig.XML, the following entry is furthermore required. <Section name="PrevalenceSystem"> <Section name="PersistentObjectModules"> <Setting value="MyPersonModule"/> </Section> </Section> Persistent objects are eventually created by the folowing two procedures: VAR p: Person; BEGIN NEW(p); AddPersistentObjectToRootSet(p, personTypeDesc); (* or otherwise *) AddPersistentObject(p, personTypeDesc) END; The first procedures adds the object two the root set, i.e. it permanently remains available, whereas for the second procedure, the object is deleted in the database if it is not referenced by another alive persistent object. For this simple example, the first procedure would be therefore correct. Once the object has been added, it gets a unique identity, reflected by the internal instance variable 'oid', which remains valid for multiple system runs. The object can be henceforth requested over its 'oid'. VAR x: PrevalenceSystem.PersistentObject; p: Person; BEGIN x:= GetPersistentObject(oid); p := x(Person) An object can be also searched via a filter function (This is especially important, if the oid is not yet known for an object). PROCEDURE JohnFilter(obj: PersistentObject) : BOOLEAN; BEGIN RETURN (obj IS Person) & (obj(Person).name = "John") END JohnFilter; VAR l: PersistentObjectList; l := FindPersistentObjects(JohnFilter) Changes to an object must be performed within a object-local transaction, such as it is depicted below: VAR p: Person BEGIN p.BeginModification; COPY("John Smith", p.name); p.EndModification; The objects registered as root elements are also removeable, whereas all other objects are automatically managed by a garbage collector in the database. RemovePersistentRootObject(p) I hope this gives a brief overview of the system. If there are further question, please don't hesitate to post them to the forum. Kind regards Luc Bläser

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WinOberon V2.5
by Gérard Meunier 31 Oct '04

31 Oct '04

Hello Oberoners, In the last version (2.5, October 2004) of ETH PlugIn Oberon for Windows, the Grow and Copy commands at the top of viewers (in the tiled viewers mode) don't work properly. When used, the new opened viewers are not readable. I'm working with Win98. Cheers. Gérard

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Zip 100 in ETH Oberon / PC Native 05.01.2003
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 29 Oct '04

29 Oct '04

An internal Zip 100 works in PC Native 05.01.2003 if two mount commands are issued. The first command yields an abstruse status message. The second gets the drive mounted. FileSystem.Mount Z AosFS IDE1#01 ~ Z: OFSDiskVolumes: IDE1Status 000001F0 1 53713 1 209 D1 D1 D1 C0 4 FileSystem.Mount Z AosFS IDE1#01 ~ Z: mounted Ideas? Regards, Peter E. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Re (2): Bluebottle and qemu
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 29 Oct '04

29 Oct '04

<edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de> wrote: > > BootMagic came up but then BB started with > > some funny colorful pixels :-( > > Perhaps I can try another graphics mode. > > OTOH the BB from the CD image starts fine. > > Perhaps it's a graphics configuration problem. > > Jack Johnson wrote:- > Did you happen to change your Init value? I leave mine at the default > 117 and it seems to work correctly. > > I'm using the current stable ISO, though, so I should test the > current/unstable/bleeding-edge version as well. > > > A question to ETH: Do you expect any trouble if I install a > > BB on ID1 slave (/dev/hdd) > > and later in qemu the disk is mounted as IDE0 master ? > > My initial guess is that you may have bootloader issues. > > I suspect you'd be fine if you ran two bootloaders: one on /dev/hda > for your suite of OSes that also points to /dev/hdd for Bluebottle, > and another on /dev/hdd that points to your virtual /dev/hda for QEMU > (which using the default Bluebottle bootloader should work fine for > this -- I would just do the whole install inside QEMU using '-hda > /dev/hdd'). --- snip -- Just an observation: How much usage do you expect to get from the research effort to be able to do smart multiple OS booting ? I've got some 6 IDE's which I interchange between mother-boards. Some with 30 ...40 partitions [for n-o]. Only one little IDE boots - to DOS All others need fd0s to boot: n-o, linux, DOS. I can post you megabytes of text on analysing MBRs ...etc. BTW n-o's Partitions.Tool with the source code is very good. But life is too short, unless you can amortise the cost over many systems. We can NEVER get it "right". Don't invest time researching that which may be irrelevant soon. Don't get married to the hardware, which will soon be redundant. Consider using fd0 booting. How much time/effort do you want to spend 'tuning' an apple which you'll eat in 20 seconds ? == Chris Glur.

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n-o sound: hardware basics ?
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 29 Oct '04

29 Oct '04

Hi, I'm trying to setup Oberon.Text / Sound = { Audio = { Port = 220H IRQ = 7 LowDMA = 1 HighDMA = 7 compatible = -1 ... } based on Usenet posts, setting up sound is known to be a dog ! I've got this Elphina MoBo with a K6 [which is irrelevant to n-o, since if it's 100 times faster, you save 1mSec (on a task that takes 1mSec), but it's ok for viewing *.ps]. Linux sees: Model: CMI8330/C3D Audio Adapter. And I can hear the mike [being scratched] in the ear-phone, and once I heard something from: cat <soundFile> /dev/dsp [or ? /dev/audio] ----------- And n-o / PCITools.Scan ~ sees: Bus 0, device 0, function 0: class/rev 06000010, vendor/device 10395597, status/cmd 22000007 Class: Bridge, Sub-class: Host bridge Vendor: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS], Device: 5597 [SiS5582] Bus 0, device 1, function 0: class/rev 06010001, vendor/device 10390008, status/cmd 02000007 Class: Bridge, Sub-class: ISA bridge Vendor: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS], Device: 85C503/5513 Bus 0, device 1, function 1: class/rev 01018AD0, vendor/device 10395513, status/cmd 00000007 Class: Mass storage controller, Sub-class: IDE interface ... Bus 0, device 20, function 0: class/rev 03000068, vendor/device 10390200, status/cmd 02000003 Class: Display controller, Sub-class: VGA compatible controller,... ... 4 devices found ----------- Since 'follow instructions blindly' isn't succeeding, I want to try from first principles, based on my memory/knowledge of 8 bit sysytems. Q1 - can it be assumed that only 1 IRQ is alloacated to the MoBo sound-system ? I can't map the linux parameters unambigiously to n-o Oberon.Text . Q2 - what is this about "LowDMA" and "HighDMA" ? As I remember DirectMemoryAccess, disables the CPU while the device is able to read/write directly to memory. Q3 - what is the data-bus width of a K6 ? Q4 - would a 'sound device' just use a single port, or is this the base-base adr. of a consecutive set ? Q5 - is it correct that since IRQ is input only, I can't determine which IRQ number is correct, except by 'activating' each sequentially until I get a response - which is impractical ? Q6 - how else should I proceed. Thanks for any advice. == Chris Glur.

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Re (3): [Oberon] Bluebottle and qemu
by fischer＠inf.ethz.ch 29 Oct '04

29 Oct '04

> A question to ETH: Do you expect any trouble if I install a BB on ID1 slave (/dev/hdd) > and later in qemu the disk is mounted as IDE0 master ? Wherever BB is installed, Partitions.Format creates a partition boot record with a BPB, BIOS Parameter Block, looking like this (use Partitions.ShowBlocks par#dev 0 1) 00000000 EB 29 90 4F 42 45 52 4F 4E 00 00 00 02 02 08 00 .).OBERON....... 00000010 04 E0 00 00 00 F0 09 00 3F 00 40 00 40 23 03 00 ........?.@.@#.. 00000020 C0 90 0F 00 80 00 00 03 00 00 00 FA EA 31 00 C0 .............1.. ... Byte at offset 24H is the boot drive identifier which will be 80H when installed on a HD and 00H on a FD. Booting BB from the second HD is only possible: o using a BB boot diskette with config data specifying BootVol1="AOS AosFS IDE1#xy" By far the easiest solution, but there exist less and less machines equiped with FDD. No patching required. o using a boot manager supporting chaining (e.g. LILO) o using a BIOS supporting that It may be necessary to patch the drive identifier to 81H in the boot sector. You might give some thought to this, which depart from the IDE track: Bluebottle can be installed on a USB Flash Disk (stick), which is handy. 128MB is plenty and cheap. If the BIOS allows booting from USB-HDD, then you gain a lot of flexibility. You'll find details in my AosSetup.Text in the latest Crazy-Fresh release. I cannot judge how that fits with Linux or qemu. I'll be happy to answer further questions on the subject. Regards, Andre Fischer --- start of oberon mail --- hg@h5;<P?E\UE^_e]a4V^LZSe]^dX^U>O@1@1>dgFGiVfb:gH2CG0PGQ1l150nP[E0l1305P1M04 Q6@O2bP2bhFgb>GjVfgjF@Bgg2bRBETZC@Bdg2blnfj2bbRGhFfaBG@6FgVG@BGinfj:FfFF@VFc 2bT2bdjfiBg`bFf2b`2BQ:D@nFg2bTBdH2bibf`Jgb2BDnBbFFknBdBFbVb6jC@6FgBF@bf`Bgb: G@VFg2bhFffFG@BGdFF@Bfd>ge2bd>G@ffgFGgBgbBF@6fi2bTBdR2C@ff`>GjFFi2bOf`6NEdFF iFFkFFi2BQ:D@Vfi2bdjfiPUU\\4T@=\bU^YU^Ym]^M^^dX_E^]=\d5TSE^U=\d]\c5TQ5T`=\bU >@@:fgnFj2BiFfanFiBF@NgdBGdf``2BQ2EQbB@:dTndY2BX6Fi6ffFFjFFiDX\m]SM]\4T\m]_M ]Ye]W5T\=][]\PT^X=]c5TX\^c]\P4ZQE^d1>WC5]_m^2U]_M<W;8QKHUk89KI];8Q98SI:K8819 <Q9<Q12bR:D@:cL2bL2C@BCS2BJ:C@BcJ2bJ:C@BCS2R55T`46QA@Pb4T`DVP8>19<QAGVBGnDQF DYnDWjBGjBG@@f@@2BH2CH23S9<19<Y98;:<19<Q98Q1dX`4T`<WP4V`4TcdXP4V`4Td4VP46@I> C@2cI2BH2C@jBGjBGj2nCG2DG2dAjBG2b6P`46:CH2bQ2C@VCH2BHJD@2CH4W`4T`88Q1W98Q1Q1 JdP2bR6D@>cH2BH2C@>DHdU^@G0H<MY;1I3d52R2=_d]\P<\d5T_e\VM^UU^PDVd4YP<]c5Td5]U YHOkKT\b=]f]\P<]T]\^U^Ye\Y]\b5Tg5]YM\X5Tg=]\U]PD\U]Q94W`4YPl^X]\^5TYe]c14T_e ]P<\P4Y45TQe]T]Q94V`4YPl]^Q6UX^\Q=DX_m]d=]^m\PDX25TVE^_]]PT^X]<WKI7kKM;I19B9 :8CkLnFgbfl2Bhnfi>gd:FfFFM2R9l]9\^c=]^m<3;85RRm=2RYM>;;MYKI1iMC;M2banFgJfdNF @Bf`Bg`2bi2gb>fdJflVFgNf6V`4V@QnfgdZ_U]a\WR<X?MZP<X_M^6MZP<Y4I<79Nc[8KH2CX@c ;8=KHU;8Y;J;cb6fiVfb>Gj2binFfFGjVfgTUPD\eU^PT^X]\b]\P\\h=]cU^PT]UM^c5TQe]T54 ;3KKH7;JC[K;kLKH2CHISKMC;L;;I1iMC;MdX4UX^4T>m]P4^QU^S5]Ye]WYL;KL[KJUKI9[;KH3 1I2OK203Can61IK3[K3kI;[L1iL[;LQkKU;MC[K?caRf`VFgVFgNF@RbbjbcjB@bdTbdWVB@f`4n f4F7HH:dTn4WKMQ3Pd5]QU^P\Q=<Yd5T]=\i5TR]\Pd]UM\UM^c=\b=_PT^_5T`=<4Td5=19IUKJ 00T^_9>S9B1IJM;8Y;JD<hL;kHYkKU[;KH3cjK[;8KKJ?;JY;8?KJ]KI1iLOKK;;8Y;JOKM?;JYC jnF@BGdVV\4Tg5]YQT]\`=\bU^Pd\bm=HIVDRFD@BGi6fa^FMf`4:DfFgb:fgBGjbfb2ba6Fg2Ba FF@VFg0hK`Z>EQ2BSbf`>Gd2BRVfi^F@RbiBgd>feVBF2bkR6<]c9J3[K9KNMI3CH<U9>KZ@1IJW ChbfbjFjVG@6FgBF@>FdFf`2GGf`4VDc2BjR65JBHHI;KOkMW;85kKOcdj6=[LOSEM:K9B9:AI98 Y;JjF@VggFG@Nf`VFg2b`2BfnFj2bgJF@JFfFFlVFaVFfVFjVGGHFOKM?9KI;8=KJM;I19I;;M3K JIkL1IJM;8KKN1I@OkLWJIYKMQ[;YJIa;M1IJMCj88IKHYciBG@>Di6FmVgFJDiFfiRF@:gbbfb6 fiFFG2b6V`6V`T2ba6V^m]d5TZ]^Tm\U5TXm]g5Td5]QAcVFj>G@NgdB7IJJMKMa;8O[L1IL;S^\ Q=<YWT]\YH2Bd6Fh2gl2BjnVQe]cm^UE^Pd\eE^d5]UE^P<^e]<V6W;8O[K19MASc]^RE]UM\deU =XD;kI3[L9kLI983ZK9[L;;8=JJWkHAKIUK3g^@CJAUjf=Pfg01H0>G34P04PR5P0hoo?41XP501 hI5881882TP9P2Z0;h<PP<P0=PP=P0>PP>P0?PP?058858@58H58P58X58`58h5`12b12d12f12h 12j12l12n1TP08018J5X2nooC16@0noo?T18E;;NYkA3;I?KIYkLMYC;kMW:Mc;K;;DUkK7C028%

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Re (2): [Oberon] Bluebottle and qemu
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 29 Oct '04

29 Oct '04

Jack Johnson <knapjack(a)gmail.com> wrote: > OK, in my particular instance, I took a 4GB disk and erased all the > partitions. I have a spare 8GB somwhere. > I did a nice, standard Bluebottle install, creating a > 258MB 1st partition, setting it active, and following the steps from > the installation text. I did *not* install the Bluebottle boot > manager. > ... > If the number of heads is 255, I know that I need to do some math. > 525 * 255 = 8367.1875 * 16 > sudo qemu -hdachs 8367,16,63 /dev/hda I didn't do my math before :-( I tried using the trick with my existing /dev/hdd loading as -hda. It has BootMagic: W89, 3 x BB, Debian. BootMagic came up but then BB started with some funny colorful pixels :-( Perhaps I can try another graphics mode. OTOH the BB from the CD image starts fine. Perhaps it's a graphics configuration problem. So I will give it a try with the spare disk on the weekend. A question to ETH: Do you expect any trouble if I install a BB on ID1 slave (/dev/hdd) and later in qemu the disk is mounted as IDE0 master ? ID1 slave is removable disk so I can let the children play with the computer without risking my stuff. My qemu only allows giving LBA parameters to -hda. The showstopper naturally would be whether I can access the www using my qemu started BB. Did you try that yet ? Thanks Jack ! Regards, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de, Running Bluebottle www.edgarschwarz.de Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler ! Albert Einstein www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/ www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/SwOberon

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Bluebottle and qemu
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 28 Oct '04

28 Oct '04

knapjack(a)gmail.com wrote > <edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de> wrote: > > How can I find the LBA parameters of my drive ? > > Using Oberon, Linux, Windows ? > Using Linux I use fdisk: > # fdisk -l /dev/hda > Disk /dev/hda: 30.0 GB, 30005821440 bytes > 16 heads, 63 sectors/track, 58140 cylinders I did that and also installed sudo doing your example command. I booted from a Bluebottle ISO CD image. But I couldn't see more than a IDE#2 cdrom with Partitions.Show later. So my question is: did you manage to mount an existing AosFS partition on a HD with write access booting Bluebottle with qemu ? If yes could you give me a detailed description please ? Also what did you put in /etc/sudoers ? What Unix did you use ? Another question is whether Felix and Guenter have time to work on a Linux port of Bluebottle ? This would be preferable naturally. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de, Running Bluebottle www.edgarschwarz.de Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler ! Albert Einstein www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/ www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/SwOberon

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