May 2007 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

AMD 64 Port
by Søren Renner 05 Jun '07

05 Jun '07

Any word on this? The upcoming quadcore chips are tempting. Also, when is the next crazy-fresh release planned? I will contribute a new demo if this is desired. By the way, when I was learning how to distribute work among multiple threads I looked at the code for the Mandelbrot demo. Gosh. I couldn't follow it at all. Something about workunits.

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Tracer Demo for WinAos
by Søren Renner 20 May '07

20 May '07

download this: http://www.box.net/shared/2yjezm52vo "Work.zip" unzip it and replace the "Work" directory in WinAos Run WinAos and follow the instructions It will be hard to control at first.

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Re: Wirth's plea against bloat is lost in the noise.
by Chris Glur 19 May '07

19 May '07

On 19 May 2007, Chris Glur <easlab(a)absamail.co.za> wrote: > > So now this post will generate another 100 goog-entries about > > 'oberon+Blackfin' ! > > > > Is goog becoming evil like M$ ? > Jack Johnson wrote:- > Google isn't generating those cross-posts, it's just finding them for > you. They were always there. > That's correct. But as a deeper analogy: the 'just reporting press' often contributes greatly to the rioting & looting or to the war. I'm trying to see the broader evolution of the 'organic' net. And I'm worried that I'm already so dependant on google. > > And the curse of the proliferation of 'text representations'; > > what's wrong with using plain text (single bytes) for single-quote > > and back-quote, instead of "a^8099", "a^8098", "&rsquo", > > "&lsquo" ...etc. > > What's wrong is people asking what's wrong. UTF-8 and its > HTML-equivalents are probably the best way to incorporate what was > with what needs to be without assuming English and a tiny subset of > Western European languages are the only ones that need adequate > representation on the net. > No ! If ascii doesn't suffice, then by all means use 'more'. An example : recently I received what a standard browser sees as: `A'-> `B' but when I saved it and read-back via [linux] N-0 [ because N-O allows me to eg. colour the text and paste graphics and search & replace better than any of your "moved forward" alternatives] I see: #A#->#B# where the '#' chars indicate that N-O hasn't got a font for the char-representation used. On closer inspection I see that of the 4 chars: "`'->", the N-O browser translates the 2: ">-", but not "`'". But all four of these are standard ascii chars. So why should they need to be translated ?! Perhaps the "`'" were considered to look too small with the original font, and they prefered a fatter version. But then say so; don't give me political slogans about moving-forward. IMO the marketers just put the non standard feature there, and make it their default, and when/if enough clowns use it, it becomes the standard. It's like pdf: excellent to caputure reprints of old documents [by photographing], but inappropriate for net published text which has no graphics or need for pdf. > What would be better is to move forward in the simplest fashion, > instead of remaining rooted in the status quo under the veil of > simplicity. BTW. I got a ten word reply from the old-chappie, who was told that he needed to buy VISTA because he was having trouble emailing; where his ten word intelligence was followed by 3K-bytes of html crap. There IS a problem. And as I've previously noted google has [perhaps not intentionally] killed some newsgroups. I was reading how because AT&T had the monopoly & the sole authority for the telco. wiring INSIDE your house in the old days, the initial answering-phones had to mechanically lift and replace the receiver. There are potentially great problems for freedom resulting from market control; and software having the new/unique attribute of zero reproduction cost brings problems which aren't handled by old proven laws. It's like spam, I don't know what the solution is, but there IS a problem; which BTW gmail solves and replaces with it's own disadvantages. So perhaps google has a motive to promote spam ? Like the virus-protection companies have a motive to promote virus ? == Chris Glur

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Wirth's plea against bloat is lost in the noise.
by Chris Glur 19 May '07

19 May '07

> From: oberon-bounces(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > Your message entitled > > Chris Glur test Outlook-Expr.. > > was successfully received by the Oberon mailing list. Wow !! with all the confusion, this was sent to the wrong recipient. The curse of info bloat is out of control. If you want to force the waiter to drop the soup, just keep on sending him back, with a complaint. Entropy will prevail. I recently did a goog. to find out about oberon on the power-efficient Blackfin-CPU. Of the several hundred hits, half were 'cross links' and duplicates/archives of a previous query that I had made. So now this post will generate another 100 goog-entries about 'oberon+Blackfin' ! Is goog becoming evil like M$ ? And the curse of the proliferation of 'text representations'; what's wrong with using plain text (single bytes) for single-quote and back-quote, instead of "a^8099", "a^8098", "&rsquo", "&lsquo" ...etc. == Chris Glur.

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WinAos executable
by Patrick.Hunziker＠unibas.ch 18 May '07

18 May '07

Hi Soren Look at PELinker.Tool and the various *.Link Files in the WinAos distribution. They show how to compile your custom .exe file with all relevant files linked into it (thus eliminating the need for free-floating object files) The mechanism is also described in UserGuide.Text but some details there are a little outdated. More details are found in Emil Zeller's Dissertation at ETHZ, somewhere findable on the net. (Note that a PC compiler permitting the [C] parameter convention is also in the doing for WinAos, although not in the current distribution). Earlier, Windows DLLs could also be produced by this approach, although the recent system updates seem to have brought in a little problem here, so that DLL production does not work currently (a highly desirable feature, however) while loading Windows DLLs works. Executables are also be compilable on Linux, as shown by Guenter Feldmanns recent advances in porting Bluebottle to Linux; producing Linux shared libraries would also be very welcome, but have not been realized up to now to my knowledge. Patrick Soren wrote: Is there a way to package a program as a standalone executable in WinAos, so that as long as I can port a demo from native BB to WinAos, I can make it into an executable, running on (ugh) Windows, that doesn't expose anything but the demo? ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

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WinAos executable
by Søren Renner 17 May '07

17 May '07

Is there a way to package a program as a standalone executable in WinAos, so that as long as I can port a demo from native BB to WinAos, I can make it into an executable, running on (ugh) Windows, that doesn't expose anything but the demo?

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Chris Glur test Outlook-Expr..
by Chris Glur 17 May '07

17 May '07

Hi Henry, I tried to send this from Windows but my setup is wrong, and since I don't use Win, I won't waste time fixing it. I'll rather just paste the text which I wrote in Win, into my linux sytem and post via linux. PS. I think buying a new Win package is bad ! ======================== Hi Henry, beacuse my electricity went off and I need to reboot, I've now got a chance to test Windows Outlook Express for you. Ie. how to email without using word. 1. Start: envelope-Icon = see 'outlook express'; 2. click: email ..start a new Mail message = see a new form with 6 fields; 3. fill in 2nd field called "To:" with your Henry G's address; 4. fill in 5th field called "Subject:" with: "Chris Glur test Outlook-Expr.." 5. fill in last BIG field with this message. 6. clik the "send: Button/icon" Hope this works .. trying to post from Windows now ! == Chris Glur. ============== the text below is what I 'cut & pasted' from what I saw when I first entered Outlook Express. You should also see something like this, to know how/where to find the "Create a new Mail message" place. =============== Go to for Main Identity Find a Message... Identities Tips E-mail There are 29 unread Mail messages in your Inbox Create a new Mail message Read Mail Newsgroups Create a new News message Read News Subscribe to Newsgroups... Contacts Open the Address Book... Find People... When Outlook Express starts, go directly to my Inbox. Tip of the day You can switch identities without closing Outlook Express or losing your connection to the Internet. To switch to another identity, click the File menu then click Switch Identity. Previous Next Switch Identities... Add New Identity... Manage Identities... Log Off ====================

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Re (3): [Oberon] document packaging.
by peasthope＠cablelan.net 13 May '07

13 May '07

Chris B., cb> ...TestDocPackage.tar.gz cb> This file actually is recognised as a tar.tar file not a tar.gz file by my browser. Was it actually gzipped / compressed? I believe I tarred TestDocPackage.html and Cantor.jpg to make TestDocPackage.tar and gzipped that to get TestDocPackage.tar.gz. cb> "Forbidden You don't have permission to access /TestDocPackage.opc on this server." The *.opc exists only in my imagination. Definitely not on Carnot. cb> lame-3.96.1.tar.gz In the Iceweasel here, Edit:Preferences:File Types doesn't list tar or gz. Given that URI, Iceweasel asks what to do with it and the document is not displayed automatically. Thanks, ... Peter E. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Re (2): [Oberon] document packaging.
by Easthope 12 May '07

12 May '07

Hi Chris, cb> I just tried it with Internet Explorer 7 and it successfully downloaded a tar.gz file and launched WinZip to open it. Thanks! You prompted me to test also. Debian Iceweasel displays http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/TestDocPackage.html.gz as a picture with a caption beneath, as we expect. IE probably does the same. The value of this is only to save storage. TestDocPackage.tar.gz contains TestDocPackage.html and Cantor.jpg. When Iceweasel is given the URI http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/TestDocPackage.tar.gz it opens a dialogue to ask whether to open with /bin/tar or to "Save to Disk". Choosing "Open with /bin/tar" gets Iceweasel to open the Downloads viewer which tells that TestDocPackage.tar.gz is "Done". If I click "Open" nothing visible happens. Unzipping and untarring a second time is uninteresting. In any case, pointing Iceweasel at http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/TestDocPackage.tar.gz does not open the document as we might hope. I haven't seen the file name extension mentioned. Will speculate at a document named http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/TestDocPackage.opc which a browser will display automatically. (This doesn't exist on Carnot yet.) The opc file will be portable as a pdf, readable with a browser rather than with Adobe Reader and smaller that a pdf. People at ETH must have considered all this long ago. Regards, ... Peter E.

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document packaging.
by Easthope 10 May '07

10 May '07

Jan & others, At Mon Mar 6 00:39:22 2006 Jan Verhoeven mentioned, "... webservers will display a .html.gz file as if the '.gz' was not there in the first place." A document can comprise multiple files, *.html, *.jpg & etc. I am interested to have such a document packaged into a single file or text. gzip compresses one file into one file. To make one archive of several files, they are assembled with tar and then squeezed with gzip. As I understand, most Web browsers can not open a *.tar.gz. The problem was recognized in the W3C years ago. Googling "site:w3.org xml packaging" finds several pages including, "http://www.w3.org/1999/07/xml-pkg234/Overview" . Also see "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Packaging_Convention". Aos might support OPC later if not now. Regards, ... Peter E.

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