January 2011 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

PlugIn Oberon for Windows
by Alexander Iljin 04 Feb '11

04 Feb '11

Hello! I'm trying to run ETH PlugIn Oberon for Windows v2.5, downloaded from ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/ETHOberon/Win95NT/PlugIn/ : WinOberon.zip + WinOberonFix.zip Unfortunately, it randomly crashes on startup (more often than not). The included debugger shows that there is an "access violation" happening in (Win32.)Threads.CheckStacks. The same crash happens for v2.4 and for v2.5 without the *Fix.zip installed. It is likely that the problem stems from the "sp=0" value, possibly at the SYSTEM.GET(sp, p) call. If I'm correct, then the problem might be caused by Windows 7 permission issues in Kernel32.GetThreadContext call. That's just a wild guess, though, for I don't know how to check it. And it's strange that once out of 10 tries the exception does not happen and the system runs normally. When it does crash, I see the main window appearing, maximizing itself, fully painting, and then Windows asks me if I'd like to report the bug to the developers. I'm running Windows 7 Professional. The Debugger's "Action - Show Trap" output: Debugger started Oberon ready access violation Threads.CheckStacks PC = 5406 bottom = 40960000 cont = 0404D98H ЮЏдъ.ontext (I5Lъ.ontext) p = 0 sp = 0 t = 01607A40H I5Lъ.э°@ (I5Lъ.hread) Kernel.GC PC = 4377 excp = 0409438H I5Lъ.xcpFrm i = 0 m = 00H (I5Lъ.oduleDesc) p = 4219104 ptr = 0404E38H I5Lъ.xceptionRecord (I5Lъ.lockPtr) ptradr = 4200560 Oberon.GC PC = 6411 me = 01607CA0H I5Lъ.и% (I5Lъ.askDesc) Oberon.OLoop PC = 13214 M = 0457558H I5Lъ.nputMsg V = 016A1660H I5Lъ.nputMsg (I5Lъ.iewerDesc) lastTask = 01607CA0H I5Lъ.и% (I5Lъ.askDesc) time = 1084556749 Threads.Wrapper PC = 3780 excp = 04044D8H I5Lъ.xcpFrm id = 3892 par = 0 pt = 00H (I5Lъ.hread) t = 01607A40H I5Lъ.э°@ (I5Lъ.hread) wrapper = Threads.Wrapper PC = 3486 Unknown EIP = 077A21174H EBP = 0270FF94H Unknown EIP = 0778DB3F5H EBP = 0270FFD4H Unknown EIP = 0778DB3C8H EBP = 0270FFECH Is there a fix available? Is there anyone working feverishly on the solution? Alternatively, what can I run if I don't want to reboot or install virtual machines? Can Aos run as a Windows 7 app? ---=====--- Alexander

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ETHO for linux
by Chris Glur 25 Jan '11

25 Jan '11

You should relate/link the 'Subject' or cited text to the previous poster. > I am slightly confused by your posting on the Oberon list. > > The two lastest versions of Oberon I have on my Debian Linux machine are > Oberon V4.0-1.7.02 and ETH Oberon(2.4) for Linux. i.e. hosted as > applications on Linux OS. > > The latest version of ETH Native Oberon seems to be in > NativeOberon_2.3.7.tar which is an archive of the Native Oberon disk > set. i.e. runs on i386 hardware as the only OS. > I'm running 3 LEO's currently. I'll start another to see what Version it is. In order to paste from *that* one to here, I've got to go via a linux-file, which I access via a <keyMacro> ----------> boot-info is: ETH Oberon (2.4.3) for Linux x86 System.Time 25.01.2011 00:35:27 Host System Info: sysname: Linux nodename: localhost.localdomain release: 2.4.22-1.2115.nptl version: #1 Wed Oct 29 15:42:51 EST 2003 machine: i686 ---------- > The Plan 9 editor which is modeled after the NO interface is Acme. The > contribution to its appearance and operation of NO is fully acknowledged > on the website. Yes. Perhaps the mention of LNO confused you. That's different from LEO. I haven't use V4 lately, because I couldn't see how to use its NewsReader, and LEO is good for seeing the <dir from where it's started> as 'local'. Probably V4 can also be set to do that, but life is short. == Chris Glur. PS. it seems that my modified LEO mailer *CAN* again get through my ISP's TxAuthorisation; so I'm mailing this from LEO, with a Cc confirmation to my <not same ISP>

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LNO & Plan 9
by easlab-absa 24 Jan '11

24 Jan '11

Duke wrote: > Any of you Oberon OS gurus ever test-drive Plan 9, and therefore be in > a position to offer a fair comparison? Please don't see me as one of you twitterers. This post is mainly to test/confirm if my mailer can still/again do ethz. The first time my ISP introduced MailTransmitAuthentication I modified my ETHO-mailer. Since I'm 'tired' now, I won't modify it again. The following error/deception may be interesting: I've got 2 smtp.absa* accounts and 2 gmail accounts. ethz is set to only accept posts from smtp.absa1 When mailing to ethz, I used to always include a Cc to smtp.absa2 as a confirmation; and sometimes also to gmail* Since I've been receiving the smtp.absa2-directed mail, I wrongly assumed that the mail was also going to ethz. Understandably, since the mail to absa2 doesn't have to go outside 'absa', it doesn't have to pass the MailTransmitAuthentication. So I wrongly assumed that my ethz mails had been confirmed. ------------ My only brush with Plan 9 was seeking/finding/installing/testing <I've forgotten the name> which was a linux based copy of N-O: 2 track display like NO, 3 button mousing ...etc. I got it because I wanted to use the N-O interface style to access linux. Now I've found that it's easier to just open & close a LEO [Linux ETHO] in the relevant linux directory, or use a file common to linux and LEO to navigate the linux-dirs via LEO. I typically have 3 LEOs opein at a time. Previously I asked here [and got no answer] about: * what is the latest LNO ? * does it run in X and/or a frame-buffer ? * can you mouse-paste between linux & LNO ? * ...forgotten questions..? == Chris Glur

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Plan 9
by Søren Renner 19 Jan '11

19 Jan '11

Plan 9 was one of the worst movies ever made, despite the fine acting of Bela Lugosi. On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:00 AM, <oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote: > Send Oberon mailing list submissions to > oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oberon-owner(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. NO or A2 vs Plan 9 (Duke Normandin) > 2. Re: NO or A2 vs Plan 9 (Brantley Coile) > 3. Re: NO or A2 vs Plan 9 (Duke Normandin) > 4. Re: Memory allocation (Duke Normandin) > 5. Re: NO or A2 vs Plan 9 (Stauber Sven Philipp) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 04:25:09 -0700 (MST) > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: [Oberon] NO or A2 vs Plan 9 > To: Oberon List <Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1101160421540.1760@fryrpg-zna> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Hello List ... > > Any of you Oberon OS gurus ever test-drive Plan 9, and therefore be in > a position to offer a fair comparison? > -- > Duke > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 07:53:15 -0600 > From: Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] NO or A2 vs Plan 9 > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <8A1E8C2F-E093-4BC0-8F88-8705E6F837EB(a)coraid.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > yes. but I assume the list would like me to do so off line. correct? > > Brantley Coile > founder/cto coraid > www.coraid.com > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 16, 2011, at 6:25 AM, "Duke Normandin" <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> wrote: > > > Hello List ... > > > > Any of you Oberon OS gurus ever test-drive Plan 9, and therefore be in > > a position to offer a fair comparison? > > -- > > Duke > > > > -- > > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 07:05:25 -0700 (MST) > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] NO or A2 vs Plan 9 > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1101160703180.2894@fryrpg-zna> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Sun, 16 Jan 2011, Brantley Coile wrote: > > > yes. but I assume the list would like me to do so off line. correct? > > > > Brantley Coile > > founder/cto coraid > > www.coraid.com > > Whatever! You can contact me directly, if you prefer. Whatever you > think best. I don't want to get into _any_ heated discussions with > anybody. :) Much obliged! > -- > Duke > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 04:21:20 -0700 (MST) > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Memory allocation > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1101160414570.1760@fryrpg-zna> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Sun, 16 Jan 2011, J?rg Straube wrote: > > > Hi > > > > The declaration part of your generic database module could look something > > like this: > > [snip the code] > > Hello my friend! Happy New Year! > > WoW! All the hard work is done. :) > > Because you can write this stuff as simply as you write a letter to > your dear mother, there is this RTL8139 NIC that needs a skeleton > driver for NO ... :D > > Just kidding! > -- > Duke > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:59:14 +0000 > From: "Stauber Sven Philipp" <sven.stauber(a)inf.ethz.ch> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] NO or A2 vs Plan 9 > To: oberon <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <C3386B10B0FB8146ADAF03FFB890686DB5029A(a)MBX11.d.ethz.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Would be interesting to read your opinion about this. As long as the post > has some relationship to Oberon, it perfectly fits this list, doesn't it? > > Best, > Sven Stauber > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Brantley Coile [mailto:brantley@coraid.com] > Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. Januar 2011 14:53 > An: oberon > Betreff: Re: [Oberon] NO or A2 vs Plan 9 > > yes. but I assume the list would like me to do so off line. correct? > > Brantley Coile > founder/cto coraid > www.coraid.com > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 16, 2011, at 6:25 AM, "Duke Normandin" <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> wrote: > > > Hello List ... > > > > Any of you Oberon OS gurus ever test-drive Plan 9, and therefore be in > > a position to offer a fair comparison? > > -- > > Duke > > > > -- > > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related > > systems https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > -- > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > End of Oberon Digest, Vol 84, Issue 7 > ************************************* >

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NO or A2 vs Plan 9
by Duke Normandin 17 Jan '11

17 Jan '11

Hello List ... Any of you Oberon OS gurus ever test-drive Plan 9, and therefore be in a position to offer a fair comparison? -- Duke

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Memory allocation
by Jan Verhoeven 17 Jan '11

17 Jan '11

Suppose I want to make a database manager like dBase. Then I would need to be able to allocate random amounts of memory and I would need pointers that can be incremented and decremented. AFAIK I cannot allocate random amounts of memory in Oberon. And pointer arithmatic is also a definite nono. Does this mean that a program like dBase is not feasible in Oberon? Without having to revert to silly methods like fixed record sizes. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Jan Verhoeven http://www.verhoeven272.nl

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WITH considered harmful
by Paul Reed 12 Jan '11

12 Jan '11

> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:06:14 -0000 > From: "Bob Walkden" <bob(a)web-options.com> ... the Modula-2 WITH statement, which was a way to avoid > writing the record name against every component of the record. > > eg VAR r: RECORD > a,b : CARDINAL > END > ... > WITH r DO > a := b > END > instead of R.a := R.b; This reminds me of an experience I had working on a large Delphi Pascal codebase a few years ago, where previous programmers had knocked themselves out using this form of WITH liberally to save typing at the expense of clarity. However, it was pointed out to me that it's actually worse than the clarity issue; in a statement block like: WITH r, s, t DO ... END (which is allowed in Delphi), the whole *meaning* of the statement block might change if somebody adds a field to one of the record definitions which happens to coincide with an already-used field in one of the other records in the WITH. I instituted a(n only slightly tongue-in-cheek) rule that no-one was allowed to check any unit back into the source-code control system unless they had removed several WITH statements.

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 84, Issue 3
by Joe Scrutiniz3r 10 Jan '11

10 Jan '11

> I also found that in the Oberon07 reports that the WITH statement is > omitted, however there is no explanation why this was done. From the > examples of the Wiki pages I could not conclude myself why leaving WITH > out of the language was a good thing. NW explained why there is no WITH at the time of Oberon[-01]. sorry, I don't have a link; maybe it was in his 'differences between M2 and Oberon.' anyway, he said WITH is not needed. to understand that, one must go back to the reason he introduced it in M2, which was because he tought it could be used for code optimization - maybe [even] via hardware support (MMU).

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Please explain syntax
by Duke Normandin 10 Jan '11

10 Jan '11

hi .... The following is an excerpt from the obc compiler module "Args". (** GetArg -- fetch an argument into a string buffer *) PROCEDURE GetArg*(n: INTEGER; VAR s: ARRAY OF CHAR) IS "Args_GetArg"; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "IS" is a type-checking relational operator, is it not? So what is it saying here at the end of a procedure declaration? -- Duke

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Oberon Wiki ; what happend with WITH
by Frans-Pieter Vonck 09 Jan '11

09 Jan '11

Is there anyone of the oberonlist maintaining the wiki page of Oberon-2? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon-2_%28programming_language%29 I found the following flaw in the "Type binding" section MODULE Birds; TYPE Bird* = RECORD sound* : ARRAY 10 OF CHAR; END; END Birds. The semicolon after CHAR is superfluous. Actually the Oberon07 compiler of Astrobe rendered the following error. 5 36: ident missing I also found that in the Oberon07 reports that the WITH statement is omitted, however there is no explanation why this was done. From the examples of the Wiki pages I could not conclude myself why leaving WITH out of the language was a good thing. [..] WITH statement, which allows the dynamic subtype of a variable to be checked directly. >From the "Green Book" I understand that WITH is an extension of the relational operator IS. Wikipedia does not show an example of the use of IS in comparison to the WITH method. It says; [QUOTE] A third approach [of Run-time type checking] is possible using the IS operator. This is a relation operator with the same precedence as equals (=), greater(>), etc. but which tests dynamic type. Unlike the two other approaches, however, it does not allow the programmer access to the subtype that has been detected. [END QUOTE] Any suggestions for some example code to clarify this? Greets, F.P. Vonck

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