August 2009 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Re. OCP - Forum unavailable
by Chris Glur 12 Aug '09

12 Aug '09

I don't think I posted this yet ? "Bob Walkden" <bob(a)web-options.com> wrote:- > What is to stop the scientists using usenet now? > Then it won't be replaced. They do. As noted, there are some 'very competent' usenet groups. Which proves how well the original design was conceived. But you know about the 'network effect' and critical-mass and if 1% of C users were working with Oberon, then we'd have eg. a utility which can list the display-tree & reorder the display. Eg. to bring a hidden frame to the top of the pile. Stefan Salewski wrote:- > I think you confuse the term "Blog" with "Internet_forum" > -- you did it multiple times in the past. > Yes, I favour brevity. I often label entities as 'crap' when they are not strickly speaking c.r.a.p. > And you may ask yourself if it is really a good idea to put a > space in front of the question mark It's NOT a question mark. It's AFAIK a yet un-named symbol, which I often write as !?! . Some times I use the Spanish style of having a '?' before the sentence too - to switch the reader to 'question mode'. It means [the semantics is]: * like Swiss/german 'oder', or 'ya know'; * note my assertion, and refute it if you can; * this is a question [in my post] which requires an answer: ** N questions require N answers; ** a tripod can't function with one leg missing; ** especially top-posters, can't answer all the questions, and you have to write back to re-ask the unanswered question/s. Inet comms. is NOT what you learned at school. Some people use smileys. BTW school also didn't teach you to germanic-like, hyphenate multiple-words into a single concept; that's another one of my 'extentions' to 20th century school-english. > -- kids often do this... I can believe you. They have extended/refined beyond what 'I learned at school' - like your above use of "..." ? <--- "oder" Here are some of the serious problems that I have when trying to mine informations from 'blogs' [and I welcome suggestions on how to improve/change my methods]: * the knowledge base is not indexed like usenet, so if I want info. on a new/unrelated topic, I'd first have to goog several cycles to home-in on a selection of blogs. * to read the http format [I guess normal/herd-followers use a 'standard'/monster browser] I'd use lynx or elinks, possibly fetching-to-file multiple blogs, from a script, while I'm d/l-ing my email. Being in a 3rd [going 4th] world country, my connection costs are high. * a big problem, is that the OP's original article, plus the accumulating thread is passed back-and-forth for each iteration. * Usenet is designed so that if you exchange the info. for 20 different topics in one brief on-line session, all the 'book-keeping' of keeping topics and threads properly sorted, is done. AFAIK *not* for blogs ? <-- = 'oder' ? what am I doing wrong ? Can your method of handling 'internet forum', handle 20 topics, spread over law, medicine, economic, technology ..a,b, c in one brief on-line session ? BTW perhaps the whole question is answered by: do "Internet_forum" have RFC/s, or equivalent; or was it just evolved via suck-it-and-see by the marketing-boys and art-students ? You might have realised that the current interesting global economic situation, also came about by discarding sound, proven theory for the latest fads. Brantley Coile wrote: > I think the forums are a great improvement. > I find the presentation more useful and more convenient. > All the threads are in the same place. That could be maximum entropy: no ordering/classification !? > Searching is much easier. So then, you have classification - not all mixed together. Or if your info-set is small, you just search it all, every time ? How do you find the paragraph in that [perhaps] *.pdf document ? IMO 'searching' is the most important task. How do you make search easier ? Let me throw out a few ideas. I suspect that [today - new fads will sweep through] most users, use a monster-browser that does http, mail & potentially usenet ? And when the browser crashes they've lost all their data. Which doesn't matter because it's just twitter kiddie stuff ? I've concluded that the 'importance heirarchy' of your 'computing assets' is: your knowledge & skills > your data > your data-holding hardware > your CPU. Kiddies [driven by marketers] wrongly emphasise the CPU/engine. I had an accident last week, by saving a linux-eth-oberon file as '/temp' - STUPID; which renamed the essential-for-the-OS-dir to 'tmp.Bak' and caused other unknown problems. Since my data is separate, I just swapped to an alternate/less-favourable engine/OS-installation. If you're persuing topics in law, medicine, economics, technology ...you might find a OOD-approach [which I must admit, I didn't design, but which just evolved from LEO]. The knowledge that you are accumulating on topicX arrives by, email, newsgroups & increaingly by the crappy blogs. There's also the problem of *.pdf, which, as is often the case, the absence of diagrams allows the text to be stored as ascii, or even better for heavy-stuff in LEO format, where you've font & colour edited the material while analysing it. So, with this 'data instead of procedure' approach, your data, which is the treasure, is attended-to by the current utilities. The latest browser, or even the OS is just a throw-away. == Chris Glur. PS. what's the record/history of memory-leaks with ETH-Oberon ? I keep on reading about these major research projects that are being updated and 'just fixing a few memory leaks' ?! ====== PSS. using LinuxEthOberon [LEO} I d/l-ed http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/forum/ Yes anything from eth should be d/l-able by LEO ? Then with HyperDocTools.LinkIndex * I extracted many URLs to a file, with which I [would have, if the blaug was working] fetched multiple pages which I could read, at my leisure off-line. Yes, there's a rational for blogs over Usenet: to avoid the contamination of spam. But it's more of the 'I want my *own*: to be in control', like 'I can't use public transport, if I want to be independant' ? "oder" PSSS. another bad feature about blogs/http based coms: when you switch tasks from initiating a blog d/l to eg. fetching your email, the blog [now in the background] asks 'accept cookies?'. So that when you go off-line, assuming, wrongly, that the blog has done it's job, it had been waiting, and now it has lost it's connection. I.e the task can't be completed, without human supervision. http hates automation, because it want's your personal attention. Because they want to influence your mind.

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Re. OCP - Forum unavailable
by Chris Glur 12 Aug '09

12 Aug '09

"Bob Walkden" <bob(a)web-options.com> wrote:- > What is to stop the scientists using usenet now? > Then it won't be replaced. They do. As noted, there are some 'very competent' usenet groups. Which proves how well the original design was conceived. But you know about the 'network effect' and critical-mass and if 1% of C users were working with Oberon, then we'd have eg. a utility which can list the display-tree & reorder the display. Eg. to bring a hidden frame to the top of the pile. Stefan Salewski wrote:- > I think you confuse the term "Blog" with "Internet_forum" > -- you did it multiple times in the past. > Yes, I favour brevity. I often label entities as 'crap' when they are not strickly speaking c.r.a.p. > And you may ask yourself if it is really a good idea to put a > space in front of the question mark It's NOT a question mark. It's AFAIK a yet un-named symbol, which I often write as !?! . Some times I use the Spanish style of having a '?' before the sentence too - to switch the reader to 'question mode'. It means [the semantics is]: * like Swiss/german 'oder', or 'ya know'; * note my assertion, and refute it if you can; * this is a question [in my post] which requires an answer: ** N questions require N answers; ** a tripod can't function with one leg missing; ** especially top-posters, can't answer all the questions, and you have to write back to re-ask the unanswered question/s. Inet comms. is NOT what you learned at school. Some people use smileys. BTW school also didn't teach you to germanic-like, hyphenate multiple-words into a single concept; that's another one of my 'extentions' to 20th century school-english. > -- kids often do this... I can believe you. They have extended/refined beyond what 'I learned at school' - like your above use of "..." ? <--- "oder" Here are some of the serious problems that I have when trying to mine informations from 'blogs' [and I welcome suggestions on how to improve/change my methods]: * the knowledge base is not indexed like usenet, so if I want info. on a new/unrelated topic, I'd first have to goog several cycles to home-in on a selection of blogs. * to read the http format [I guess normal/herd-followers use a 'standard'/monster browser] I'd use lynx or elinks, possibly fetching-to-file multiple blogs, from a script, while I'm d/l-ing my email. Being in a 3rd [going 4th] world country, my connection costs are high. * a big problem, is that the OP's original article, plus the accumulating thread is passed back-and-forth for each iteration. * Usenet is designed so that if you exchange the info. for 20 different topics in one brief on-line session, all the 'book-keeping' of keeping topics and threads properly sorted, is done. AFAIK *not* for blogs ? <-- = 'oder' ? what am I doing wrong ? Can your method of handling 'internet forum', handle 20 topics, spread over law, medicine, economic, technology ..a,b, c in one brief on-line session ? BTW perhaps the whole question is answered by: do "Internet_forum" have RFC/s, or equivalent; or was it just evolved via suck-it-and-see by the marketing-boys and art-students ? You might have realised that the current interesting global economic situation, also came about by discarding sound, proven theory for the latest fads. Brantley Coile wrote: > I think the forums are a great improvement. > I find the presentation more useful and more convenient. > All the threads are in the same place. That could be maximum entropy: no ordering/classification !? > Searching is much easier. So then, you have classification - not all mixed together. Or if your info-set is small, you just search it all, every time ? How do you find the paragraph in that [perhaps] *.pdf document ? IMO 'searching' is the most important task. How do you make search easier ? Let me throw out a few ideas. I suspect that [today - new fads will sweep through] most users, use a monster-browser that does http, mail & potentially usenet ? And when the browser crashes they've lost all their data. Which doesn't matter because it's just twitter kiddie stuff ? I've concluded that the 'importance heirarchy' of your 'computing assets' is: your knowledge & skills > your data > your data-holding hardware > your CPU. Kiddies [driven by marketers] wrongly emphasise the CPU/engine. I had an accident last week, by saving a linux-eth-oberon file as '/temp' - STUPID; which renamed the essential-for-the-OS-dir to 'tmp.Bak' and caused other unknown problems. Since my data is separate, I just swapped to an alternate/less-favourable engine/OS-installation. If you're persuing topics in law, medicine, economics, technology ...you might find a OOD-approach [which I must admit, I didn't design, but which just evolved from LEO]. The knowledge that you are accumulating on topicX arrives by, email, newsgroups & increaingly by the crappy blogs. There's also the problem of *.pdf, which, as is often the case, the absence of diagrams allows the text to be stored as ascii, or even better for heavy-stuff in LEO format, where you've font & colour edited the material while analysing it. So, with this 'data instead of procedure' approach, your data, which is the treasure, is attended-to by the current utilities. The latest browser, or even the OS is just a throw-away. == Chris Glur. PS. what's the record/history of memory-leaks with ETH-Oberon ? I keep on reading about these major research projects that are being updated and 'just fixing a few memory leaks' ?! ====== PSS. using LinuxEthOberon [LEO} I d/l-ed http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/forum/ Yes anything from eth should be d/l-able by LEO ? Then with HyperDocTools.LinkIndex * I extracted many URLs to a file, with which I [would have, if the blaug was working] fetched multiple pages which I could read, at my leisure off-line. Yes, there's a rational for blogs over Usenet: to avoid the contamination of spam. But it's more of the 'I want my *own*: to be in control', like 'I can't use public transport, if I want to be independant' ? "oder"

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RE: [Oberon] OCP - Forum unavailable
by Chris Glur 08 Aug '09

08 Aug '09

> > I know of this mailing list & the clo usenet group. > > What's [the full URL of] "OCP" > > Chris Burrows wrote:- > http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch > > This default URL redirects to a Wiki. The direct URL to the forum is: > > http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/forum/ > OK, thanks. Why is usenet, which was well designed/evolved by scientists being replaced by clik-kiddie-blogs, designed by art-students and marketers ? Is there something more than the user-herd allowing themselves to be mis-led by Micro$loth ? Have all the adults died ? How can blogs ever hope to sustain threaded multi-cycle dialog, as still exists on eg. sci.physics, comp.theory, comp.software-eng ... ? == Chris Glur.

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RE: [Oberon] OCP - Forum unavailable
by Chris Glur 08 Aug '09

08 Aug '09

> -----Original Message----- > From: oberon-bounces(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch=20 > [mailto:oberon-bounces@lists.inf.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of=20 > Treutwein Bernhard > Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 5:33 PM > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Subject: [Oberon] OCP - Forum unavailable >=20 With Usenet being replaced by the completely unsuitable blog-format, and other clik-kiddie degenerations, I'm feeling 'out of the game'. I know of this mailing list & the clo usenet group. What's [the full URL of] "OCP" == Chris Glur.

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OCP - Forum unavailable
by Treutwein Bernhard 07 Aug '09

07 Aug '09

Hi everybody, I can't reach the forum nor the ocp main page. What is the matter? regards -- Bernhard

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