May 2005 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Oberon Database
by Dan Parnete 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Hello, I have read this list archives, the documentation inside the distributions, some extra found on the web and I understood. Database is a Tabu word in this community, and is better to not talk about. There is no trace in any distribution (excluding the commercial BlackBox) and the new Bluebottle project doesn't intend to implement one. Ok. It's a choice of live. But don't tell me none of you never needed to put some data altogether. I can't believe nobody extended at list the Library code to more flexible collections management. I saw some database projects started long time ago. Where are this implementations? In other words: if I need a database, have I write it myself? Dan

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AW: [Oberon] newbie questions about oberon and bluebottle
by Friedrich, Felix 03 Jun '05

03 Jun '05

> 6. Which is BlueBottle and Oberon System differences? The Oberon System (Language+GUI) has been developed by J.Gutknecht, N.Wirth and others in the late 1980s/ early 90s. It is a cooperative multitasking system, i.e. there can be more than one "processes" but whenever one process blocks the system, the system stands still (as it was often the case in the cooperative multitasking system Windows 3.1). This is managed by tasks that can be hooked into the "Oberon Loop" and they are called whenever their time have come. As it was at that time not the main objective of the authors, there was only little concept about concurrency of more than one processes in the original Oberon from - say - 1988. Meanwhile a REAL concept for more than one processes has been added not only to the Oberon System but even to the _Language_ Oberon (Active Oberon / Bluebottle): Active Objects. The interesting and (as far as I'm informed) new thing about it is the tight interaction of Objects and a concept of concurrency (like Threads/Processe). By adding very few and highly intiutive constructs to the language Oberon (EXCLUSIVE sections, ACTIVE objects and AWAIT statemets plus a Timer Object), a very fast mechanism for light weight processes joint with the handling of concurrent access to joint resources _on_Object_level_ has been added to the Language. (compare the mission statement: make it as simple as possible but not simpler). In fact, the system is fast as you can read in the PhD of P.Muller and measure yourself by installing and using the system. Now, the Bluebottle system contains a very clever and powerful implementation of a GUI that exploits the new language constructs. Moreover it demonstrates the concepts of concurrency by way of examples as - for example - a parallel compiler (which is quite a good "example"!). My personal opinion: the power of Active Oberon / Bluebottle is caused by the simplicity of language and the parsimonious handling of extension thereof. Have a look at the "Spektrum der Wissenschaft" / "Scientific American", Vol. 4 or 5 (?) of this year. In an article about the future of computers, that I have not at hand at the moment, it is stated that, since there are theoretical limits for the classical serial computers, in the near / middle future, computers are/will be equiped with more than one processors / processor cores instead of with higher CPU frequencies (keyword "Hyper Threading"). The author suggests that the SOFTWARE INDUCSTRY RUNS INTO SEVERE PROBLEMS CAUSED BY A LACK OF GOOD CONCEPTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF MULTICORE APPLICATIONS. Now, the Active Oberon language extension together with the exemplified core of the new multithreading operating system Bluebottle is at least a good step in the direction of solving this problem. Without clear basic concepts, an intuitive and readable language and reliable safety mechanisms both in the language and the operating system, many programmers will come up against a brick wall when they start with the implementation of multicore applications and parallel algorithms. Only some thoughts... All the best, Felix.

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Re (3): [Oberon] USB stick access ?
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 30 May '05

30 May '05

Edgar, > ... card reader ... do we need a special driver for that ? Probably, a little code at least. A year or two back, Pieter mentioned that USB code is rudimentary and doesn't support most device specific features. We users need to contribute. > Aos.Call AosFSTools.Mount U FatFS USBHC0#01 ~ > as I expected reading your example. Aos.Call? Never used it. Regards, ... P. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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installing oberon from dos like linux with loadlin.exe
by Smoke Bellew 28 May '05

28 May '05

Is it possible? I have a laptop without floppy drive and bios doesn't support booting from cd I have read in the faq of oberon that it is possible with ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/ETHOberon/Native/DosBased/ version, but I need bluebottle May be I need noboot.exe ? But I didn't found it on a bluebottle cdrom. Now I am resintalling linux(with loadlin) to free partition for bluebottle. Thank You very much!

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newbie questions about oberon and bluebottle
by Smoke Bellew 27 May '05

27 May '05

Hello. I have read many pages about oberon, but still have many questions related to oberon and bluebottle. 1. is oberon language different from other modern object pascal languages(fpk,delphi)? What is they differences except syntaxis 2. Where can I find active oberon comprehencive documentation and code examples? I like freepascal documentation, there are documented all functions in all units, and You can easily realize which unit to use if you need that function. 3. From where can I download Oberon compiler&docs for Linux, Windows, Linux PPC ??? Which compiler supposed to be the best? I know about xds compiler and ooc2 (optimising oberon compiler). Are they away from oak guildelines? 4. Is there any IDE for Linux? 5. What means Native Oberon? I have downloaded and installed Oberon for Linux (x86) version 2.3.8 and didn't yet realize what is it - simply Oberon System emulated in Linux? And for what I need it? BTW, it is freezed all my system (fedora core 3) when I close the oberon window and force me to reboot. 6. Which is BlueBottle and Oberon System differences? 7. Is it possible to replace BlueBottle gui with other? Just like in Linux you have to choice between many de and wm's. May be I'd like to write my own gui. 8. How I can help Oberon/BlueBottle and where I can send patches, and new programs. 9. Is ttf fonts supported in bluebottle, and if yes, how I can add unicode ttf font, and configure new, armenian layout and switch layouts pressing some keys? 10. How possible translate system for displaying menus and more in other langs? 11. I didn't find terminal in BlueBottle ;) 12. I can't install BlueBottle on the hard drive in virtual machine (vmware) yet. In the File Manager I can see only RAM and CD. THere is no hd, but I have created one. I didn't pake dos partition? I have to do it myself??? 13. How to use LILO or GRUB for configure multiboot linux/Bluebottle? 14. Which file systems are supported? 15. Is there any except programmers editing tool for BlueBottle 16. How call autocomplete in PET ? 17. is it possible or planned to port gcc? 18. I didn't understand yet how to install BlueBottle. Just copy all files from cd to one partition and make it bootable ? 19. Where is located system files, libs, executables? 20. What is obx and mod extensions? 21. How change process priority? Thank You

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Re (2): [Oberon] USB stick access ?
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 26 May '05

26 May '05

Thanks Peter shark(a)gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca wrote: > > OFSTools.Mount U FatFS USBHC0#0 ~ didn`t work :-( > That should be AosFSTools.Mount. Aos.Call AosUsbStorage.Init ~ Aos.Call AosFSTools.Mount U FatFS USB0#01 ~ Did the trick. The stick at a hub was recognized as USBHC0 at port 0. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!! Great !!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But now the next question. I stick a cardreader in the hub. An USB 2.0 Cardreader is recognized at USBHC0 at port 1. But Partitions.Show then tells me "no media" for USB1 even when a compact flash card is in. So, should the card reader work or do we need a special driver for that ? > Boot1= ...AosFSTools.Mount USB AosFS USBSCSI0#01~; This is interesting. Because I couldn't mount with Aos.Call AosFSTools.Mount U FatFS USBHC0#01 ~ as I expected reading your example. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de, Running Bluebottle www.edgarschwarz.de Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler ! Albert Einstein www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/ www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/SwOberon

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Re: [Oberon] USB stick access ?
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 26 May '05

26 May '05

Edgar, > OFSTools.Mount U FatFS USBHC0#0 ~ didn`t work :-( That should be AosFSTools.Mount. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/Aos.Par and look near the end of section "# --- 3. ADDITIONAL DRIVERS". Boot1= ...AosFSTools.Mount USB AosFS USBSCSI0#01~;... is commented out but it worked when needed. The Boot1 line runs off my viewer. In case you want the stick to be your default partition, note the "AosFSTools.SetDefault USB" at the end of the line. Regards, ... P. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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USB stick access ?
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 25 May '05

25 May '05

Hi, I have an USB stick which is FAT formatted. It is recognized as connected to USBHC0 port 0. So what now to access it ? The naive OFSTools.Mount U FatFS USBHC0#0 ~ didn`t work :-( Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de, Running Bluebottle www.edgarschwarz.de Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler ! Albert Einstein www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/ www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/SwOberon

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Re: [Oberon] WinAos 2.02
by John Drake 23 May '05

23 May '05

Ok, I finally figured out why the menu wasn't showing up. Actually it was being obscured by the Windows toolbar. The only way around this (that I see) is to use a lower Oberon screen size: like "Aos.Call Win32AosDisplay.Install 1024 768 ~" If there was some way to "raise" the menu up a few centimeters that would be great. Dan Parnete's "BlueBottle for Windows" distribution does this. Regards, John M. Drake __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

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Re (2): [Oberon] BB on IDE3#03 and boot diskette
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 22 May '05

22 May '05

jan verhoeven wrote: > > If yes: could I please have a description how he did it and a hex > > dump of his boot sector ? > I just followed the install script. After installing on IDE3 and reading the following in betadocu.htm: Another thing to check is that the byte at offset 24H is the boot drive number (80H in the example). This should be 0 for diskette A:, 80H for the first BIOS disk drive, 81H for the second BIOS disk drive, etc. I assumed that I need to patch 83H. But wrong :-( it must be 81H. I think the "etc" makes it easy miss the 81H. It works now. I boot with NT bootloader because I also have XP on this machine. So is there somthing similar to betadocu.htm for Bluebottle ? Because it`s for Native and rather old probably. > > 2. I need a detailed description how to make an Bluebottle bootdisk with > > diskette#0. Formatting, ... Especially for a IDE3 Bluebottle. > > A bootdisk worked with previous versions using a DOS formatted > > diskette, but it seems no more :-( > You get the diskimage and wave your magic wand, > dd bs=512 if=/Oberon0.dsk of=/dev/fd0 <Enter> This gives me an Oberon0.dsk. But not a boot disk for booting an Oberon partition by diskette instead using another bootloader. So I don`t need it anymore. But I still think AosInst.Tool should be explain how to format an Oberon diskette (with reserved sectors, UpdateBootFile, ,,,) before writing the bootconfig to Diskette0#0. Because I get a "BootIni error 1007" If I try to format a diskette :-( And now I only have to buy a cheap Realtek network card tomorrow because Bluebottle doesn't seen to understand my "VIA compatible" ethernet. Then I can finally go to work with WebDAV again and solve locally a problem I still have with AosIO on the network. For big files it's slowing down after a while exponentially. By connecting two PCs in my LAN I don`t need to run the server in Zürich while testing with the somehow very slow VNC (Also perhaps a network problem) Cheers, Edgar BTW, I just read something about xen.fs.net. An open source virtual machine. So if in addition to Linux and other OSes Bluebottle could run with Xen this would eliminate the need for a Bluebottle port to '86 Linux. -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de, Running Bluebottle www.edgarschwarz.de Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler ! Albert Einstein www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/ www.edgar-schwarz.de/cgi-bin/moin/SwOberon

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