February 2010 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

New A2 native release
by Ulrike Glavitsch 03 Mar '10

03 Mar '10

Dear A2 users, a new native A2 release (rev. 2731 of Dec. 11, 2009) is ready for download at www.bluebottle.ethz.ch. It contains the new interruptible garbage collector that now functions properly for multi-core machines. I want to thank all those who helped finding errors during the process of making this release stable. I wish everybody good luck with the new release. Best regards Ulla Glavitsch -- ETH Zurich Ulrike Glavitsch Eggler Institute for Computer Systems Clausiusstrasse 59 8092 Zurich ulrike.glavitsch(a)inf.ethz.ch +41 44 632 70 49 phone +41 44 632 13 07 fax

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Release: Trap on PC.Compile
by Søren Renner 27 Feb '10

27 Feb '10

[1] TRAP 504 PL 3 A2 Revision 2958 (26.02.2010) CS:=0000001B DS:=00000020 ES:=00000020 SS:=0000002B CR0=FFFFFFFF80040031 FPU=00000000 PC=01E1D892 ESI=00003246 EDI=01D974E0 SP=FFFFFFFF8493F4F4 CR2=FFFFFFFF8493CFFC PID=00000000 EAX=01D973F4 EBX=FFFFFFFFFFDF9FDF ECX=FFFFFFFFFFFFFF19 EDX=FFFFFFFF8493F784 CR3=3FFFD000 LCK=00000000 BP=FFFFFFFF8493F4F8 FS:=00000000 GS:=00000000 ERR=00000000 CR4=00000240 TMR=00013127 FLAGS: cpazStIdo iopl3 {1, 7, 9, 12..13} Process: 109 run 0 301DF5B94:UNKNOWN Objects.SwitchTo pc=3836 [00000EFCH] {0, 28} PCT.InitDelegate pc=23170 [00005A82H] p=01D9733CH (NIL) return=01E68C9CH (NIL) scope=01D973F4H (NIL) flags={0..31} res=0 State PCT: @Self=01E17414H (NIL) BodyName=78 (0000004EH) SelfName=84 (00000054H) Anonymous=90 (0000005AH) PtrReturnType=98 (00000062H) AWait=50 (00000032H) ANoWait=2705 (00000A91H) Byte=01E68BFCH (NIL) Bool=01E68C9CH (NIL) Char8=01E68D3CH (NIL) Char16=01E68E3CH (NIL) Char32=01E68EDCH (NIL) Int8=01E68F7CH (NIL) Int16=01E6901CH (NIL) Int32=01E690BCH (NIL) Int64=01E6915CH (NIL) Float32=01E691FCH (NIL) Float64=01E6929CH (NIL) Set=01E6933CH (NIL) Ptr=01E693DCH (NIL) String=01E6947CH (NIL) NilType=01E694BCH (NIL) NoType=01E694FCH (NIL) UndefType=01E6953CH (NIL) Address=01E690BCH (NIL) SetType=01E690BCH (NIL) Size=01E690BCH (NIL) NumericType=01E68F7CH (NIL), 01E6901CH (NIL), 01E690BCH (NIL), 01E6915CH (NIL), 01E691FCH (NIL), 01E6929CH (NIL) CharType=01E68D3CH (NIL), 01E68E3CH (NIL), 01E68EDCH (NIL) Allocate=PCV.Allocate pc=6895 [00001AEFH] PreAllocate=PCV.PreAllocate pc=6217 [00001849H] PostAllocate=PCV.PostAllocate pc=7632 [00001DD0H] Universe=01E68A3CH (NIL) System=01E68B7CH (NIL) True=01E6957CH (NIL) False=01E695DCH (NIL) SystemAddress=01E6963CH (NIL) SystemSize=01E6969CH (NIL) AddressSize=4 (00000004H) SetSize=4 (00000004H) import=01F26C2FH (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL) nofImportPlugins=1 (00000001H) database=0201C0FCH (NIL) PCOM.InStruct pc=24656 [00006050H] typ=01D9733CH (NIL) i=0 len=0 strref=29 (0000001DH) typtag=51 (00000033H) typadr=0 vis={5..6} name=58056 (0000E2C8H) btyp=01E68C9CH (NIL) arr=00000000H (NIL) type=00000000H (NIL) mod=00000000H (NIL) typname=0 proc=01D9733CH (NIL) r=00000000H (NIL) rec=00000000H (NIL) ptr=00000000H (NIL) modAttr=00000000H (NIL) tAttr=01D9737CH (NIL) sysflag=0 sf={0..31} intf=00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL), 00000000H (NIL)... c=00X earr=00000000H (NIL) tensor=00000000H (NIL) readonly=0 PCOM.Import pc=28179 [00006E13H] self=00B6C83CH (NIL) M=00B6C83CH (NIL) modname=13642 (0000354AH) tag=63 (0000003FH) res=0 i=4 (00000004H) name=59156 (0000E714H) str=01D9733CH (NIL) vis={5..6} R=01D6433CH (NIL) proc=01D9193CH (NIL) scope=00B6C1F4H (NIL) pscope=01D91894H (NIL) selfimport=TRUE zeroCompress=FALSE ver=B1X MAttr=00B6EF3CH (NIL) flag={} flags={0, 3, 5..6, 20} type=00000000H (NIL) string="srBase"... readString=PCOM.ReadStringNoZeroCompress pc=18100 [000046B4H] importError=FALSE PCOM.Export pc=16529 [00004091H] r=30781140 (01D5AED4H) M=00B6C83CH (NIL) new=TRUE extend=FALSE skipImport=FALSE msg="" name="srBase"... oldM=00B6C83CH (NIL) nofstruct=0 newsym=FALSE changed=FALSE extended=FALSE MAttr=00000000H (NIL) impList=00000000H (NIL) PC.Module pc=3442 [00000D72H] scanner=0097945CH (NIL) source="srBase.Mod"... options="s "... breakpc=2147483647 (7FFFFFFFH) log=01DF595CH (NIL) diagnostics=0201C1B4H (NIL) error=FALSE scope=00B6C1F4H (NIL) dest="386" objF="" size=0 R=Rec@0000016CH new=TRUE extend=FALSE nofile=FALSE skip=FALSE version=B1X res=0 str="srBase"... msg="" finished=TRUE copyscanner=00000000H (NIL) sym=0 PC.CompileFile pc

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New native A2 release
by Ulrike Glavitsch 26 Feb '10

26 Feb '10

Dear all, a new A2 release with revision number 2958 is ready for download under www.bluebottle.ethz.ch. Improvements are: 1) a bug in the kernel related to the GC was fixed 2) Sven Stauber implemented the support for syntax highlighting. Syntax highlighting can be switched by editing the Applications -> PET -> SyntaxHighlighter section in Configuration.XML. 3) the partition tool has been revised Please report any problems you find with the new release. Best regards Ulla Glavitsch -- ETH Zurich Ulrike Glavitsch Eggler Institute for Computer Systems Clausiusstrasse 59 8092 Zurich ulrike.glavitsch(a)inf.ethz.ch +41 44 632 70 49 phone +41 44 632 13 07 fax

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another testimonial
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 19 Feb '10

19 Feb '10

Date: Tue Jan 26 11:10:49 2010, sven.stauber at inf.ethz.ch wrote, > But I have to admit that the low memory footprint / CPU > requirements of N-O (in particular the Gadgets system) are impressive. Once or twice a year one of my Linux systems is in bad trouble. Currently, for example, X is broken on the home system. In this circumstance Native Oberon is amazingly helpful. ET is far better for reading a manual page than is a text console and Desktops.OpenDoc http://... is far better than Lynx for most Linux documentation. The NO design objective of high reliablility is well appreciated. Regards, ... Peter E. -- Google "pathology workshop"

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Re: [Oberon] Re. HOW2 'magnify view' for BB?Aos?A2?
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 18 Feb '10

18 Feb '10

Chris & Sven, Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:21:32 -0700 (MST) Chris wrote, > ... in my first ETH Oberon, I couldn't scroll-down > to read how-to-scroll-down. Illustrated humorously at the end of "Introducing the Book". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFAWR6hzZek In 1492 some of the "experts" predicted that Columbus would sail off the edge of the earth. He persisted and found a new continent! Conclusions: * Don't be afraid to question "expert" knowledge. * Think of exploration as an investment in progress rather than "time wasting". Regards, ... Peter E. -- Google "pathology workshop"

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Re. HOW2 'magnify view' for BB?Aos?A2?
by Chris Glur 18 Feb '10

18 Feb '10

> The following key combinations can be used for zooming/panning in > BB/Aos/A2: > > META+PgUp: zoom in > META+PgDn: zoom out > META+Cursor: Pan "one screen" to cursor direction > > For more details, see MainMenu -> Docu -> Tutorial (Tutorial.Text). Thanks, I remember in my first ETH Oberon, I couldn't scroll-down to read how-to-scroll-down. --------- > >>>BTW Isn't it strange that CD-Aos won't boot when my > 80 GB ide is connected, [which has some 32 GB limit > problems, with certain stuff], when the CD-installation > should not use any other IDE/partition? > > Yes, it is. Would be interesting to know why. If you find time, you > could boot from the CD and enable the "screen tracing" settings by > > setting the following config strings: > TraceMode=3D1 <---? TraceMode=1 > Init=3D > Boot=3D <---? Boot= IIRC I tested to confirm that another CD [debian etch] *COULD* boot, with the 32GB-problem-hda. So it seems a problem of A2's CD. And then, IIRC, I tried the A2 CD with BIOS 'not recognising hda', to further isolate the 32GB problem from the CD. It still failed. I can't test it again till I take the PC off its current job's settings. It's amazing that no one has yet made a utility to restore all the settings to allow a PC to be switched off. That's a perfect example of Alvin Toffler's 70's "replacing material by intelligence". Eg. so that we don't need the PCs to run 24/7. > In particular, the output of the ATA disk driver (ATADisks) would be > interesting... > > You may also clear other config strings to avoid that the output does > not fit the screen anymore. Then this becomes a FURTHER pending project. == Chris Glur.

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HOW2 'magnify view' for BB?Aos?A2?
by Chris Glur 17 Feb '10

17 Feb '10

IIRC when I viewed the Aos-CD-bootable, briefly on someone else's PC it could change the screen magnification [like Ctrl/Alt/- does on many linux], which IMO is very useful. Now that it also boots on my main-PC, [provided my main IDE is not present] I don't see [via the unclear fonts] if/how to 'increase the text size'. I clearly remember the 'text size scrolling' which was THE facility of Aos that I liked -- previously. BTW Isn't it strange that CD-Aos won't boot when my 80 GB ide is connected, [which has some 32 GB limit problems, with certain stuff], when the CD-installation should not use any other IDE/partition? Do modern PCs have the similar many BIOS manual settings? A common way of releasing a product is: "it's been tested on all the common/popular platforms, so it's OK". I prefer the successive refinement approach: " stage 1 of booting is confirmed by <confirmation1> stage 2 of booting is confirmed by <confirmation2> ... stage N of booting is confirmed by <confirmationN>". -------- A problem which leo [linux-ETH-Oberon] has inherited from N-O, is that when the dialup hangs it CAN crash leo, particularly if the task/Desktop,VT is switched to another job, while waiting for the dialup to progress. The error message normally relates to "...X...signal". Were the designers of Aos aware of the dialup being able to badly interfere with other tasks, and is this improved in Aos, or doesn't anybody use dialup? == Chris Glur.

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Re: [Oberon] HOW2 'magnify view' for BB?Aos?A2?
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 17 Feb '10

17 Feb '10

Chris, > ... doesn't anybody use dialup? Few use it now. Another way to connect is via a Linux router which connects PPP through the modem, on demand. Your NO or A2 machine can connect to the router by Ethernet or by PPP over a null-modem cable. Any number of machines on your LAN can connect this way using one modem. Incidentally, my old 486 and Pentium 1 laptops work very neatly with a null-modem cable. I don't know anything about 'magnify view'; sorry, ... Peter E. -- Google "pathology workshop"

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Re. linux oberon ++ Aos documentation
by Chris Glur 08 Feb '10

08 Feb '10

Jan de Kruyf wrote:- > The ETH version is too old for my box it looks like > It gives a segmentation fault on installing. AFAIK the latest PC must run all 386 software ? But yes I get segmentation error crashes too. So I continually save my work. Since leo takes about 3 seconds to start, I'm using it as an editor for any linux directory. `lob $PWD` runs a copy in the 'present directory' so that you've got a good multi-frame editor [normally using EditTools.StoreUnix & EditTools.OpenUnix] on linux files. I've got 4 running at present. I consider each directory as 'an object' and lob as an inherited method, which can directly edit any file in that dir, without navigating through the directory-tree. Navigating the dir-tree with linux -> mc is easier; and when I get to the dir, it's easiest to just start a new leo on/in that dir. lob is the original starter-script, with some directory/s modified. IIRC the original starter-script had a miss-spelling of "noth??" I can't remember why I had to use the no-thread version. You've got to make utilities to eg. transfer path/fileS to and from linux. I develop an extra little 'utility' every month, so that the productivity keeps increasing. ==================== A. Fischer wrote:- > Where on earth did I mention a diskette in that short text? That's why we don't TOP-POST ? > The only way is to customiye whatever you believe is necessary > and to burn a CD. Admittedly diskettes are obselete, but is it documented how/where to insert the edited bytes in the CD image? It's impossible tedious to test the many configuration combinations manually. A 'staged' approach should be laid out. That's why I asked " If it doesn't respond to Ctrl/Alt/Del then it hasn't passed stage N of the start-up proccess". Repeatedly guessing lucky-numbers is not good science. A good way is to have confirming output at several stages. The way that linux displays the progress during booting is potentially very valuable. If for an unlikely reason, the display has to be switch out of 'DOS-display-mode' early in the boot-chain, a beep-count could mark the problem stage. I guess an incrementing beep counter, tracing the boot process would be unacceptable, unless it was dis-ableable? == Chris Glur.

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computer usage; was Re: AW: [Oberon] re. Need -/Aos.Par
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 07 Feb '10

07 Feb '10

cg> ... not used like N-O *WAS*. FWIIW I still use PC Native Oberon as my primary workstation. A Debian Linux system is beside it but NO is used for almost all text editing, html editing, mail and FTP and perhaps half of all Web browsing. The Linux system is the LAN router and handles pdf, fancy Web pages and etc. ss> I'm not familiar with N-O, ... For sake of intellectual interest and for professional background, a few hours spent installing and trying NO is a good investment. This advice isn't meant to be overbearing. It's similar to saying to a friend preparing for a trip to Europe, "Try to see the Louvre; if you can get to St. Petersburg, don't miss the Hermitage Museum." I still insist that a computer be a tool, as efficient as possible. Commercial software developers do their best to make computers an overwhelming industry and too many administrators and IT staff accept this as if there is no alternative. Regards, ... Peter E. -- Google "pathology workshop"

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