November 2016 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Source code browser in NO
by Srinivas Nayak 25 Mar '17

25 Mar '17

Dear All, Do we have any source code browser in NO? I see we have Definitions browser in NO. Using Watson, if we create *.Def and *.Def.html, we can browse through Definitions. Anything similar for source code? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Need V4 Code for trivial task.
by eas lab 20 Dec '16

20 Dec '16

2 apparently independant Windows bases TextToSpeech translator, both absurdly pause at the text's <newlines>, making the speech sound bad. Linux fixes that with:-- # remove all EOL : \n = new line; \r = return #tr -d \n | tr -d \r \NNN :Octal 10+2=> 012; 13=8+5=>015; 32=\040 cat $1 | tr -d "\012" | tr -d "\015" | \ sed 's/\./\.\r\n/g' | sed 's/ / /g' >> $2 # CrLf after each period & double-space to single-space <-irrelevant But I currently can't get inet except via M$, and I can't afford to switch to *nix for trivial tasks which I can't do with M$!! Since Oberon V4 is running in M$, I thought of: OpenInfile; OpenOutfile; FOR Char:=NextByte(Infile) IF (Ord(Char) = 10) OR (Ord(Char) = 13) THEN Write(Outfile, Ord(32) ELSE Write(Outfile, Char END; CloseInfile; CloseOutfile. You can see that I'm no longer fluent/familiar with <Algol> ?! My ETHO documentation is lost/destroyed, and it's pointless to collect replacements it [since I need to stay dependent on a M$ laptop, to easily flee as the 'revolution' progresses]; but I remember that per S3 documentation: opening & closing files involved <riders>. Can someone please sketch some V4 syntax to solve this problem, since I've really only installed V4 for the <ability to access multiple text files together on the same screen>; which apparently is beyond the imagination of the M$ designers. Thanks, == Chris Glur. PS. I looked at M$'s good idea to follow *nix's shell idea, but you can see that M$'s founder has lawer ancestors: who have the lawer's moto "if ten thousand words will do, why use ten".

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Re: [Oberon] Concurrency support in Oberon
by John R. Strohm 25 Nov '16

25 Nov '16

No, Oberon has no concurrency support in the language. The Oberon system provides a simple event loop, that allows programmers to do simple round-robin run-til-done scheduling. --- sinu.nayak2001(a)gmail.com wrote: From: Srinivas Nayak <sinu.nayak2001(a)gmail.com> To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> Subject: [Oberon] Concurrency support in Oberon Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:27:05 +0530 Dear All, We had Pascal, We came to its successor Modula-2. Then we came to its successor Oberon. But do we still have the concurrency programming support in Oberon, which was present in Modula-2? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/ -- Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon

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Re (2): Multiprocessor interconnect design and programming
by peter＠easthope.ca 23 Nov '16

23 Nov '16

Srinivas, Also, detail at a textbook level is in Wikibooks. The book about microprocessors should address the subject. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Microprocessor_Design Have a look at these chapters in particular. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Microprocessor_Design/Vector_Processors https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Microprocessor_Design/Multicore_Processors A deficiency can be described in the discussion page connected to the chapter page. Sooner or later an editor or author will address it. Regards, ... Lyall E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 Tel: +1 360 639 0202 Pender Is.: +1 250 629 3757 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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Re: [Oberon] blackbox model view controller
by Lars 22 Nov '16

22 Nov '16

Per our discussion from the other thread, "oberon for a c++ user", it was mentioned that BlackBox ComponentPascal uses a model view controller approach and is explained in the documentation. I do remember reading about this, however, I cannot find it: I searched the term model view controller, ignoring case. Also searched MVC. No results found. In delphi if an issue came up like this, the next option would be to search google and hopefully it'd pull up something online. However blackbox I believe the documentation is not indexed on google, as the documentation is offline, not online.

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Multiprocessor interconnect design and programming
by Srinivas Nayak 22 Nov '16

22 Nov '16

Dear All, Recently I am little curious to know how two processors work together... Say on a single board, two x86 processors are sitting... How they will work under a single OS... How generally such multiple processors get connected on one board and how they get initialize and work under one OS, how OS gets the other cpu work... Not much from hardware point of view, but from a OS designer point of view on multiprocessor system... Is there any good book that teaches us about these? I see all books discuss on single processor systems... I asked in IRC channels, but they couldn't help either... Any help? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Thanks for 90's V4 for M$:x64.
by eas lab 22 Nov '16

22 Nov '16

My gmail garbage lost the mail-thread related to this: which 90's N-O would not have done. google found this: [24][Oberon] Oberon for a C++ user. 1 Oct 2016 ... Wojtek, I've got V4.0-2.3 of LinzV4 running on my 64-bit Windows 10 ... from > ftp ://ftp.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at/pub/Oberon/Windows/win95-NT/. So right now I'm writing this in V4. *THANK YOU* !! Does this M$-based V4 connect to inet like LEO connects via linux ? -------------------------------- Web.Open "http://www.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at/ == HTTP: the proxy "proxy.uni-linz.ac.at" does not have a DNS entry Web.Open "http://www.dailymaverick.co.za" == HTTP-state: 404 Not found HTTP: the host "forthworks.com" does not have a DNS entry -------------------------------- These error messages suggest <IP resolution> problems. So, I'd like some valid IP's to just test `ping`: a very low-level test. Which gives an example of why LEO is the superbest system. It would allow me to pop-in 2 USBstiks, on which I've got somewhere: examples of testing via ping. I need some valid IPs. LEO allows you to search/access the linux mounted USBstiks under linux or M$ partitions. This M$ V4 can't see outside of its own directory-tree; so you'd have to use M$ to fetch the files, and then only M$ types are possible. Or can M$ do symbolic-linking? V4's README says: "Create a new link to Oberon.Exe either by clicking the right mouse button over the Desktop, selecting New -> Link, browsing for Oberon.Exe or by dropping Oberon.Exe from the Explorer onto the Desktop." Is that still meaningfull for Win8.1 and would it allow accessing a linked file which is outside of V4's Dir-tree? Thanks for great help. What a pleasure to be able to see the several textFiles relating to the job ALL together on the same screen. AFAIR the old displays were WxH=480x640 ? This laptop seems twice as wide as high. So there's plenty space wasted. wily [an imitation of ETHO] allows multiple tracks, each adjustable in width. But that's only for linux; and it follows the rule: the best systems are not well known and popular. == Chris Glur.

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Oberon for a C++ user.
by Andreas Pirklbauer 22 Nov '16

22 Nov '16

Felix, Not sure I missed the point. I believe this *should* be the expected behavior. In my code, the type test "emitted" by the "new" module are only to be applied to "new" instances. So for all practical purposes these *are* different types, yes. And the modules *are* different (except that they happened to have shared the same name). If it is your intention to make the type test in the "new" module return also TRUE when applied to instances created by the "old" module (and vice versa), then indeed this would require a different implementation. Agree with that of course. I have actually implemented THAT as well in a variant of Experimental Oberon. It is not difficult (the compiler needs to emit different code for type tests - code that simply runs through all module "versions", old and new, and then performs the type test which is a simple address comparison, and it's easy to know from the module list which modules "belong together" version-wise). But I have refrained from including that in the published version of Experimental Oberon, for several reasons: 1. It makes type tests more expensive 2. Keeping "old" and "new" separate appears to be the cleaner approach. As you said, it's no drama, really, and programmer can always handle it as well (eg by just adding another "id" field or something). 3. It would only be a real solution if one formally introduces the notion of a "version" of a module - but that would in turn lead to complex rules on when are two modules considered to be same, what if I *want* multiple versions coexisting - and I didn't see the need for that kind of complexity in the Oberon core - although it's perfectly doable. If you give me a good use case, I may reconsider and publish a variant of EO that handles multiple module versions the way you see them. Multiple versions in memory are mostly occurring during development (so that's not a good use case), but not in production. The only "good" use case I have seen so far is on a server environment in a data center where one might indeed want to have multiple versions of, say, an Oracle database, hosted on the *same* server. But with the advent of virtual machines, even that use case has by and large gone away long time ago. But happy to be proven wrong. With a good use case, I'll publish... Best, Andreas Felix Friedrich felix.friedrich at inf.ethz.ch Mon Nov 21 08:40:45 CET 2016 Previous message: [Oberon] Oberon for a C++ user. Next message: [Oberon] Non Oberon code in Oberon Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Andreas Although it is nice that it works like this, your code example misses the point of the previous code: there are two different variants coexisting of a singleton object (a module) with the consequence that a type test or type guard on instances of the "old" module emitted from a "new" module does not work any more. Eventually it is not a drama because no practically important examples seem to exist. Moreover with some indirection on the type descriptors it would be easy to solve. But for the sake of purity.... Kind regards Felix > Felix, > > below is the output (under Experimental Oberon) of a modified set of > your modules A, B, and C (source code appended below). > > > It nicely shows that C.Delete selects the "right" module B, i.e. > either the "old B" (here called B*), or the "new B" (here called B). > The type descriptors and the code of module B* (removed from module > list) is still available in memory. > > > All type tests automatically select the "right" type descriptor and > the "old B" is only removed from memory when no more references from > the remaining modules exist. > > > Andreas > > > COMMAND SEQUENCE (see below for source code of A, B, and C): > > B.Insert 1 ... insert elemt from old B > System.ShowModules ... B is the old B > System.Free B/f ... remove old B from module list, don't > release memorz > System.ShowModules ... B* is the old B > B.Insert 2 ... new B > System.ShowModules ... B* is the old B, B is the new B > C.Delete 1 ... deletes the element created by the old B > C.Delete 2 ... deletes the element created by the old B > C.Init ... clears the data structure rooted in A.root > Modules.Collect ... collects B* (no longer referenced) > System.ShowModules ... module B* no longer in memory > > GENERATED OUTPUT: > > 1) B.Insert 1 > insert element from module B module descriptor at 000212C0 > > 2) System.ShowModules > B 000212C0 000213D0 0 > A 00020F60 00020FDC 1 > System 0001CB80 0001D320 0 > ... > > 3) System.Free B/f > B unloading: removing from module list (references exist) > > 4) System.ShowModules > *B 000212C0 000213D0 0 (removed from module list) > A 00020F60 00020FDC 1 > System 0001CB80 0001D320 0 > ... > > 5) B.Insert 2 > insert element from module B module descriptor at 00021800 > > 6) System.ShowModules > B 00021800 00021910 0 > *B 000212C0 000213D0 0 (removed from module list) > A 00020F60 00020FDC 2 > System 0001CB80 0001D320 0 > ... > > 7) C.Delete 1 > type of t is T from module B* module descriptor at 000212C0 > > 8) C.Delete 2 > type of t is T from module B module descriptor at 00021800 > > 9) C.Init + Modules.Collect + System.ShowModules > B 00021800 00021910 0 > A 00020F60 00020FDC 2 > System 0001CB80 0001D320 0 > ... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > MODULE A; (*base module managing data structure of base type T*) > TYPE T* = POINTER TO R; > P* = PROCEDURE (t: T); > R* = RECORD i*: INTEGER; > close*: P; > next: T > END ; > > VAR root*: T; > > PROCEDURE Find*(i: INTEGER): T; > VAR t: T; > BEGIN t := root; > WHILE (t # NIL) & (t.i # i) DO t := t.next END ; > RETURN t > END Find; > > PROCEDURE Insert*(t: T); > VAR s: T; > BEGIN s := Find(t.i); > IF s = NIL THEN t.next := root; root := t END > END Insert; > > PROCEDURE Delete*(i: INTEGER); > VAR s, t: T; > BEGIN t := root; s := t; > WHILE (t # NIL) & (t.i # i) DO s := t; t := t.next END ; > IF t # NIL THEN t.close(t); > IF t = root THEN root := NIL ELSE s.next := t.next END > END > END Delete; > > PROCEDURE Init*; > BEGIN root := NIL > END Init; > > BEGIN Init > END A. > > -------------------------------------- > > MODULE B; (*client of A, defining extensions of A.T*) > IMPORT A, Modules, Texts, Oberon; > TYPE T* = POINTER TO R; > R* = RECORD (A.R) j: INTEGER END; > > VAR M: Modules.Module; > W: Texts.Writer; > > PROCEDURE Close*(t: A.T); > VAR S: Texts.Scanner; > BEGIN > IF (t IS T) & (M # NIL) THEN > Texts.WriteString(W, "type of t is T from module "); > Texts.WriteString(W, M.name); > Texts.WriteString(W, " module descriptor at "); Texts.WriteHex(W, ORD(M)); > Texts.WriteLn(W); Texts.Append(Oberon.Log, W.buf) > END > END Close; > > PROCEDURE Insert*; > VAR S: Texts.Scanner; t: T; > BEGIN Texts.OpenScanner(S, Oberon.Par.text, Oberon.Par.pos); > Texts.Scan(S); > IF S.class = Texts.Int THEN NEW(t); t.i := S.i; t.close := Close; > A.Insert(t); > Texts.WriteString(W, "insert element from module "); > Texts.WriteString(W, M.name); > Texts.WriteString(W, " module descriptor at "); Texts.WriteHex(W, ORD(M)); > Texts.WriteLn(W); Texts.Append(Oberon.Log, W.buf) > END > END Insert; > > PROCEDURE Init*; > BEGIN > END Init; > > BEGIN Texts.OpenWriter(W); M := Modules.root; > WHILE (M # NIL) & (M.name # "B") DO M := M.next END > END B. > > -------------------------------------- > > ODULE C; (*tool module*) > IMPORT A, Texts, Oberon; > > VAR W: Texts.Writer; > > PROCEDURE Delete*; > VAR S: Texts.Scanner; > BEGIN Texts.OpenScanner(S, Oberon.Par.text, Oberon.Par.pos); > Texts.Scan(S); > IF S.class = Texts.Int THEN A.Delete(S.i) END > END Delete; > > PROCEDURE Init*; > BEGIN > END Init; > > BEGIN Texts.OpenWriter(W) > END C. > > ---------------- > > > > > -- > Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.inf.ethz.ch/pipermail/oberon/attachments/20161121/0e84a2c6/att…> Previous message: [Oberon] Oberon for a C++ user. Next message: [Oberon] Non Oberon code in Oberon Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Oberon mailing list Sent from my iPhone

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Only LEO qualifies as a work tool.
by eas lab 22 Nov '16

22 Nov '16

The special ability, which the-boys-at-PARC revealed, and seems to have been lost, except in the ETHO-family [and wily] concerns: a problem consists of multiple entities: each of which should be SEEN; but importantly: they must be introduced/added or removed from the total-VIEW one-at-a-time. Not each SINGLE items SHOWN sequentially. It's a pleasure to have V4 running on this "Windows thing which has the monopoly of on-line capability, in my situation". But V4 can't roam the file-space, fixing problems where ever they are found. The patient must be brought to the V4-hospital. But moving the file to the V4 causes a cascade of unintended consequences. And I'll explain how/where aos failed for me too..... == Chris Glur

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Locator for Shadow Directory under Blackbox
by Aubrey.McIntosh＠alumni.utexas.net 21 Nov '16

21 Nov '16

I downloaded the .deb file for the Linux Blackbox version, and I did not immediately know where the server / shadow directory was. I thought I would write a short program to let me know where it was. I learned some more of how BlackBox works, and re-read some source in HostFiles. I decided that my short program below should work to correctly show the path to the file that is opened. It does not on the Windows 1.7-rc1 nor on the Linux version derived from it. I have encoded a short program, TestPath, as well as a file Test/Docu/Patch_HostFiles.odc. There are 3 patches to HostFiles, and with minimal testing this seems to work on1.7-rc1 for windows running under Wine on Ubuntu 14.04.5. I assume it will work correctly elsewhere. I have not been able to rebuild the Linux distribution, so it is not verified there. HostFiles is part of the boot loader, so BlackBox.exe will need to be relinked in order to test the patch. I try to be very cautious when changing system files, but I really do think this is the behavior that should occur. -- (email is my preferred communication media) Aubrey McIntosh, Ph.D. 1502 Devon Circle Austin TX 78723-1814 (512)-348-7401 StdCoder.Decode ..,1 ..k.....dONb9RTNHT9NT7I19RFf9T9N5HeKqt6FTvMfv9VOMdvMFv LFuPb9RBOONPNbf9T9N51Q1,... 1Ak...0N....58FTuPE,5TWyqlKrqKKrGrtumdGLmGorCquU2hgnRAXDFTvMUn7FTvMf1G2sET fPdPMHfP9fQbf9hOO9vR7ONbvMoedhgrRiioedFWUkTeoxhmhgnpZHZijJC7ONbvM0.,.S.yv0 U.QklbcjRAktgdjZgZZh2hgnlsDor.kay4.qorGqmQiig76FUHZijJCbnWmqmqKWKqtcw7.,.P M,A,gU3E.0E.cUGpmWLuOpoKqvCbHZiYpedhA704TeKKw.bHfEWUmL.6..D.TB,6.CcIhgsNHT 9N9ntQ8qorG4704D.CbB,708T1U.kQ9.T.Xh.2.,.Z386.QC18RdfQHfMf9R9vQ7ONb17.,.b, ,6.I16.M.EJ2XkD.6.VQ.kn5.2.WMP9UERe0cUXDF9fR5uPPPP1fP7PNZvQRtIdHf.2UlbcZpC .c9h0E.8z,U...B.0UJUB2.yzayIWKJaKIEGpmCLu0pkGLoin4akYqIcyIdGp4ak2OoomqmCLK 0GYyqtGLXaKqK4CJuGKayqnin4ak2qk2CobuodGp4ak2morCKM0mS0GFCJuGqLqorGKFiHEuok qqm0HEqHEAckBhiwhYRgWQbBAV7Y74HEqHE8GeKqtGrLq2.4HEqHE2eVZicpZjZgXVBAVEJeDR c3ZcJJe33Y2xheQbBA,hOEZO1HM0H6PTvM,dC,dFH9PoZAxhXBgoxhmRbBA,HcN,dC,dFU4Bhg hgvgV7Ic3xc7pdBAV7YBMD,dFH9PCbYBhmpZI3hdRic2YAxhX34HtCPM0HcNgbU..T8P798,7P TvMN76ROMPHMmGEGJdKpW0mIin4MGB86BPDROGN86d8G9eH,tId9Nc9b8RZPORvNF763dNHXUo hjZiUwhkhgihgYJbUIYUAZUgcARe33YHZiY,..whkhAUd2Y3pd2RbBAV7QeoZgA,.mqr2Z6xhn ,CbAlkkIuGs4KuYYUQZUIYjIYUQZUodVVUAZv..NePPM09eH7867uPrN1HM19eH7GeKqt28oZB gV02YItQ.7uPPcUXDJ9X1xhiZimxhgZhZJinpZH7N58RZ9P7ONbvM,Mwd0.UiQcjpho,YcZRiX 3.5011.85...CLL.U2V.Iy2U.UIU.U76.0E..k.8ssH38pumqm8rtumdcIf9PY62Ulb8.CLL8p umqmY62UmT.6.QJw.QI2U.sU.ktumdsIdPSNPN7ONbvM,Mw.ELMSN12Umz.,U..2,I9,U.E,,. 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