October 2003 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Re (2): [Oberon] The underscore nuisance, a little hack.
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 30 Oct '03

30 Oct '03

Vasile Rotaru <vrotaru(a)seznam.cz> wrote: > John, you wrote: > > ... There is an easier way to change the > > default font that doesn't require recompiling > > anything. In Native Oberon system variables are > > kept in the file "Oberon.Text". Just change the > > line: > > "DefaultFont"= Syntax10.Scn.Fnt > > to > > "DefaultFont"= Oberon10u.Scn.Fnt > I guess, for this to work smoothly there must be also modified bold > and italic versions of default Oberon font. And with correct names. > This can be done. I'm just wondering why I couldn't just copy the new underscore fonts over the original fonts. Wouldn't do any harm I think at the moment. BTW, what about printer fonts ? So what would be needed is a program to insert a correct underscore in all fonts. Any opinions from ETH whether they could agree to change to a "normal" underscore too ? Regards, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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Re. cooperative bug-fixing and refining.
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 28 Oct '03

28 Oct '03

edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de wrote: > Now I have a question for Chris. On > http://webdav.ethz.ch/ there is a running > DeltaV server you can access with Bluebottle. > Would you count this as support for cooperative > bug-fixing or not ? > If not why not ? What's missing ? > BTW, I think you really should consider giving > Bluebottle a try. > Perhaps Pieter will create a final NO release, but > there is no date AFAIK. > Also you can't expect many people to still use NO in > the future. Well I just see a list of directories which I can't enter with the 3 (successivley refined) methods which I used to approach it: WebVia email, Desktops.OpenDoc ^ , Linux: lynx !! What happened to "any browser" ? Any thing only accessible by (non standard) Bluebottle is not for me. > So why do you hesitate to give Bluebottle a try ? No time ? > No Pentium processor ? Both: observations suggest that Bluebottle will fail the cost-benefit test. Have I told about "the boys that are always polishing their vehichle, but never make a proper journey" ? Nativeoberon is a work-horse for me, not a toy. Pieter Muller <pieter.muller(a)alumni.ethz.ch> wrote: > > Earlier this year I started setting up a home for Native Oberon on > > SourceForge. The only source currently in the CVS repository is > > CvsClient, a module to convert Oberon texts to ASCII with markup. > If there is enough interest I'll continue setting this up. > > See http://nativeoberon.sf.net Also at http://nativeoberon.sf.net, I saw nothing of substance. > On www.zonnon.ethz.ch there is a buglist (Even if it contains no bugs yet) > Anybody of the NO or Aos maintainers interested in providing something > like that ? Again nothing of substance. I want 'meat'; not "life is better with coke". It seems that people are just 'establishing a presence' without contributing value ? == Chris Glur.

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Gadgets programming
by Jacques Eloff 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

Hi I'm trying to use gadgets as output for an interactive display. Basically, I want to place Iconizers on a panel and link certain Iconizers with Line objects to create a chart. What I would like to know is the following: - Should I use the slink field to link the Iconizers and Lines - Is slink also used to link each object individually to the panel - Should a ConsumeMsg using the 'drop' type be specified to make the gadgets visible? - What happens if I want to link multiple lines from one Iconizer to different Iconizers. For example a graph with 3 vertices (v1, v2, v3) and two edges (v1,v2) and (v1, v3). I've looked at the Oberon companion, specifically Example16 on page 217 and it seems close to what I want to do. Example16 uses Gadgets.ThisFrame to locate the coordinates of the * marker, but I will be working directly with a Panel. Should I still use ThisFrame or can I use the Attributes module to determine the panel's coordinates and size? As I understand things I basically need to do the following: 1) Locate the my Panel using Gadgets.FindObj 2) Use the Gadgets.CreateObject to create my Iconizers and Lines 3) Link everything (the question is what is 'everything') 4) Broadcast a ConsumeMsg or perhaps multiple consume messages after setting the coordinates of the objects, etc. 5) Do I need to call Gadgets.Update for the panel or would the ConsumeMsg take care of redisplaying everything Does this sound right? Thanks -- Jacques Eloff Department of Computer Science University of Stellenbosch http://www.cs.sun.ac.za/~eloff

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LayLa2
by Dan Parnete 27 Oct '03

27 Oct '03

Hello, I'm using LayLa2 for creating a menu bar with Iconizers and ListGadgets (or even TextNotes) and I didn't found the way to initialize the lists with text (menu items) from LayLa2 syntax. Is it possible to do that? Now I'm filling the lists by hand, insert them into a Library and call them in LayLa from there. But the maintenance is not very funny, nor elegant. Thanks, Dan Parnete

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NO Bug Report (was: n-o: timer-reset chit-chat
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 25 Oct '03

25 Oct '03

easlab(a)absamail.co.za wrote: > > A list of bugs or unresolved problems on a Web page? Anyone > > favour or oppose this idea? > Very good idea ! Even if it waits for year(s) to be fixed, being > acknowledged and listed is of value. On "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon/" I added a topic "NO Bugs". You could add bugreports as a followup there. Also you can subscribe now to the forum. Meaning if you send me a mail and give me an email address you will get a new post by mail. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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Re: [Oberon] Native Oberon on SourceForge
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 24 Oct '03

24 Oct '03

Pieter Muller <pieter.muller(a)alumni.ethz.ch> wrote: > Earlier this year I started setting up a home for Native Oberon on > SourceForge. The only source currently in the CVS repository is > CvsClient, a module to convert Oberon texts to ASCII with markup. Why would you take the trouble to convert Oberon texts ? Can't CVS also store in binary format ? Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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Re: [Oberon] Re: n-o: timer-reset chit-chat
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

easlab(a)absamail.co.za wrote: > > A list of bugs or unresolved problems on a Web page? Anyone > > favour or oppose this idea? > Very good idea ! Even if it waits for year(s) to be fixed, being > acknowledged and listed is of value. On www.zonnon.ethz.ch there is a buglist (Even if it contains no bugs yet) Anybody of the NO or Aos maintainers interested in providing something like that ? Regards, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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Native Oberon on SourceForge
by Pieter Muller 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

Earlier this year I started setting up a home for Native Oberon on SourceForge. The only source currently in the CVS repository is CvsClient, a module to convert Oberon texts to ASCII with markup. If there is enough interest I'll continue setting this up. See http://nativeoberon.sf.net -- Pieter

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Re: n-o: timer-reset chit-chat
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

> Yes, all the more reason why the machine should not need to > reboot for 'failing' Backup.* operations, to move files to other > OSs. Edgar wrote: IIRC Backup isn't any more top stuff on the newest NO. I think it has been replaced for a long time by OFSTools. Or is it still necessary for Diskette access ? I suspect the need to re-boot for a failing fd0 would also apply for OFSTools. Even linux can't handle it. I just prefer Backup.* because it's 4 simple commands. Or perhaps because it's in my tool-box, and OFSTools needs an extra few moves to 'unpack'. -------------- re. acknowledging that aborted PPPs need to re-boot before next re-dial [but Ctrl/Break (repeatedly) can 'clear' it]: cg> I wish you'd mentioned that before. Peter E. wrote: There are many small glitches. I complain about some but just learn to live with others. If file x is open on the Mac and FTP.PutFiles x ~ is executed, it fails. Presumeably, NetPresenz on the Mac returns a message which Oberon FTP does not recognize. Ideally Oberon FTP would report the problem in the System.Log and then wait for the user to try again. Really the FTP connection must be closed and opened again. There are many such small problems which I've learned to work around. These are the exact candidates [discovered by more experienced users] which I mean as (temporary-Howtos/tips) cg> When every one else remains silent on a reported problem, one must consider seriously that it is one's 'own' unique problem; perhaps even one's hardware. > A list of bugs or unresolved problems on a Web page? Anyone > favour or oppose this idea? Very good idea ! Even if it waits for year(s) to be fixed, being acknowledged and listed is of value. cg> Have you ever tried Ctrl/Break; immediatly after NetSystem.SetUser pap:<id>:<paswrd>@PPP ~ > My NetSystem.SetUser is in the Oberon.Text and always works > perfectly. I don't understand the reason for Ctrl+Break in this > context. I am mistaken: of the 3 lines/commands in my dialup-script, the NetSystem.SetUser pap:<args> seems to have no problem. But Dialer.Dial PPP Device0 ~ seems to 'fail to get the modem to get dialing tone (although the modem LEDs react), after an abnormal ppp abort, as I've described repeatedly. Now apparently other users admit this and say they just re-boot ? cg> BTW, has the 'newer' version fixed the problem that if you Backup.Directory a non-perfect diskette, it Traps and you can't use Backup.* without re-booting? Most annoying ! > The latest version, PC Native 05.01.2003, is running here > and it has the same problem. If I put a Mac formatted diskette > in the drive and do Backup.Directory there is a trap. The drive > light remains on and the system must be rebooted before the > drive will operate again. That's why I say, moving to latter versions won't solve the problems which are important to me. cg> Well, I'm afraid to change over (or even try - loose time) to a latest release; I need a reliable system for use every day. > As Edgar said, you want to somehow get an additional > partition for the new system. Hopefully your data is > already in a partition separate from your current system. > If you put the new system in a spare partition there is > nothing to loose. Your investment of time to make the > installation will be paid back multifold in better capabilities > of the newer system. I've got 24 partitions, and room for another score (rotate as backup), but any change over causes days of unwelcomed disruption. cg> 'Tips' re. trivial matters, like how to swap between sending your correct return-adr for email which needs it and sending news-articles where you want to hide it. > How does that work? The list servers I was subscribed to > checked the return address of a submission against a subscriber > list. A submission was not accepted unless there was a match. The only way I know/found to change the email-return-adr and 'what is shown in news-postings' is in Oberon.Text at: EMail = "top-post@not" {* your return address (leave out the < and >) *} So you can use 2 different versions of Oberon.Text , i.e. System.CopyFiles Oberon.TextN => Oberon.Text ~ is for News posting, and a self posted email header looks thus:-- X-Auth-No: Return-Path: <top-post@not> Received: from 196.39.56.32 not authenticated [196.39.56.32] by absamail.co.za with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: ... Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:38 +0200 From: top-post@not ... Whereas for email which needs my correct adrs, I use: System.CopyFiles Oberon.TextN => Oberon.Text ~ which give email thus:-- X-Auth-No: Return-Path: <easlab(a)absamail.co.za> Received: from 196.39.56.32 not authenticated [196.39.56.32] by absamail.co.za with NetMail SMTP Agent $Revision: ... Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:35:09 +0200 From: easlab(a)absamail.co.za cg> Yes, all the more reason why the machine should not need to reboot for 'failing' Backup.* operations, to move files to other OSs. > Ethernet is far better than floppynet. What if you want to carry the data to another machine via bicycle or donkey ? == Chris Glur.

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cooperative bug-fixing and refining. was: reading man pages
by edgar＠edgarschwarz.de 23 Oct '03

23 Oct '03

Peter Easthope wrote: > cg> And you're welcome to convince me, that Oberon provides support for > cg> cooperative bug-fixing and refining. > I'd wouldn't make such a claim nor argue against it. Now I have a question for Chris. On http://webdav.ethz.ch/ there is a running DeltaV server you can access with Bluebottle. Would you count this as support for cooperative bug-fixing or not ? If not why not ? What's missing ? BTW, I think you really should consider giving Bluebottle a try. Perhaps Pieter will create a final NO release, but there is no date AFAIK. Also you can't expect many people to still use NO in the future. Wasn't there somebody a while ago who said he ported XML to NL. So perhaps bringing the client to NO isn't a big problem. So why do you hesitate to give Bluebottle a try ? No time ? No Pentium processor ? Regards, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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