February 2003 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Re (2): [Oberon] PPP & multi-tasking/initialising
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 26 Feb '03

26 Feb '03

cg> What are the multi-tasking implications ? Peter Easthope wrote:- > PPP runs in the background and should be > available to any task that needs it. Of > course, in Oberon, there is only one > forground task at any time as I understand. > > Example: send a message with the mail panel. > When that is finished, open an "http://...". > These two user tasks invoke the same > instance of PPP at consecutive times. > All PPP knows is that various packets > are moving to and fro. Up to V2.3.6 the PPP was 'removed' (together with the dialer) when the dial up session was completed. Perhaps now the designer(s) want to cater for 'persisitent connections' ? This would allow the error of PPP 'not resetting' to show. Previously the 'PPP.Stop' for dial-up termination, forced a clean-up. cg> So System.ShowTasks shows that NetSystem is still running after the ISP session is finished. > Does that mean that the module remains > loaded or that PPP remains operational > in the background? Sorry I can't answer. Good question ! How does the whole business of loading and/or being in the running-task-circle/list work ? This relates to an earlier remark of mine re. 'insider information': "hello world" and it's extensions is one thing, but there comes a time when you have to 'open up the engine' and consider the OS and even get down to machine code and hardware. cg> I'd be interested to know how later versions are. Does System.ShowTasks show NetSystem still installed after the ISP session is completed ? Will test from home at the weekend if I remember. -- Chris Glur.

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Re (2): [Oberon] PPP & multi-tasking/initialising
by peter_easthope＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 25 Feb '03

25 Feb '03

Chris, cg> What are the multi-tasking implications ? PPP runs in the background and should be available to any task that needs it. Of course, in Oberon, there is only one forground task at any time as I understand. Example: send a message with the mail panel. When that is finished, open an "http://...". These two user tasks invoke the same instance of PPP at consecutive times. All PPP knows is that various packets are moving to and fro. cg> So System.ShowTasks shows that NetSystem is still running after the ISP session is finished. Does that mean that the module remains loaded or that PPP remains operational in the background? Sorry I can't answer. cg> I'd be interested to know how later versions are. Does System.ShowTasks show NetSystem still installed after the ISP session is completed ? Will test from home at the weekend if I remember. Regards, Peter E. http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Unfortunate consequence of multiple partitions
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 25 Feb '03

25 Feb '03

The addition of multiple IDE partitions to n-o's flat file structure, IMO was the main improvement post V2.3.6 which makes n-o viable for 'heavy duty' general purpose usage. The file Copy, Rename, Delete, Search ... etc. operations extended nicely to the multiple IDE partitions. The serious problem (for heavy duty users) resulting from multiple partitions, which is analagous to having to manually garbage collect, I think could be solved/automated: * a text-stretch from partition A which is pasted to a text of partition B, crashes the system after the 'src' file's partition: A ; is unmount, because the pointer/reference to A is lost. The need to Store, Close and reLoad the file before unmounting the source partition is very un-oberonish ?! Pasting between several partitions becomes unmanagable, without 'book-keeping assistance'. Is there any intention to 'automate' this in future ? Perhaps a disabling of OFSTools.Unmount with a System.Log warning, when the 'ref-count <> 0' would suffice ? The user needs to unmount partitions for several reasons - especially to reduce 'search space'. -- Chris Glur.

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Re: [Oberon] PPP & multi-tasking/initialising
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 25 Feb '03

25 Feb '03

>> Can not open port, error = 1 Peter Easthope wrote: > I found that, assuming the port is available, the V24 > panel can open it and issue the "ATZ" and "ATD T539..." > commands directly. Also, the V24.Panel can store these > commands in the drop-down menu to the right of the Log > button. cg> What are the multi-tasking implications ? > A question for the experts. Patrik, Pieter, > Thomas? I am just an amateur user. This is an OPEN forum, but I get few answers. cg> 2. The dialer/ppp 'combination' does not close the port (which it used) at PPPMain.StopInst ? Why not ? This is what I find: V2.3.6 suggest when logging-off of ISP use NetSystem.Stop This removed the NetSystem task. { What happens to any exported global variables of NetSystem ? When they are accessed by another module, the NetSystem module is reloaded ? And the NetSystem.<globalVar> has a default value ? Or indeterminate ? } For Ver 14 Aug 2001 apparently NetSystem.Stop is not 'recommended'. PPPMain.StopInst is 'recomended'. Here we badly need version-control. So System.ShowTasks shows that NetSystem is still running after the ISP session is finished. I'm guessing that NetSystem.Stop would allow the next dial-out to execute properly after a fail error - which I'll test if/when I get the critical error again. Edgar gave me special assistance to set up my Ver 2001. { I was annoyed that well working V2.3.2, 2.3.6 was 'updated' to give problems.} I'd be interested to know how later versions are. Does System.ShowTasks show NetSystem still installed after the ISP session is completed ? I still want to find how the Ctrl <break> TRAP, repeated to apparently occur in a critical state, allows escaping the hang-condition. -------------- re. Reiser's book: cg> It will be difficult for me to get this book [_The Oberon System_] in a hurry. > Ch. 15 is only 19 pages. Provide an address > and I'll mail a photocopy. Thanks: PO Box 9105, Brentwood Park, 1505. South Africa. Photostat both sides is good. Don't matter about page sequencing. -- Chris Glur. PS. Oh drat !! After NetSystem.Stop , my dial/connenct script which has: " NetSystem.SetUser pap:2nm4nx6x$za:<paswrd>@PPP ~ " does not reload the NetSystem module ?! Why ? Need to re-boot - or NetSystem.Start.

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Re (2): [Oberon] Version control
by Edgar＠EdgarSchwarz.de 24 Feb '03

24 Feb '03

Hi, more info now at "http://www.edgarschwarz.de/oberon/es.WebDAV.Text". Perhaps this answers some questions. Felix Friedrich <friedrich(a)gsf.de> wrote: > Would I have to implement the user interface myself? At the moment the client only has a command interface. I have a panel for an earlier version. I just need time to update it. > Is there a chance to use WebDAV in the Linux- and Windows- Versions of > Oberon? The problem is that Native and Windows Oberon don't have XML AFAIK. I guess it should be possible to provide XML also there. But I didn't have a look on the code yet and so can't say whether it would be perhaps simple. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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Re: [Oberon] Directory on BlueBottle Web server.
by Edgar＠EdgarSchwarz.de 22 Feb '03

22 Feb '03

> I would like to have the BlueBottle web server > return a list of files when the URL specifies > a directory. In WebDAV (RFC 2518) you will get a listing in an XML body when sending a PROPFIND to a directory. > Has anyone else made a plugin to make this so? WebDAVPlugin.Mod. It works for the directories below the root directory of the web server on a FAT partition. Just today I wrote some code for the client to create a human readable list from it's XML output. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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Re (3): [Oberon] Version control
by Edgar＠EdgarSchwarz.de 22 Feb '03

22 Feb '03

John Drake <jmdrake_98(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > By the way, I did manage to get AosFS to clean > compile under Plugin Oberon yesterday. I will > continue this effort since this will also get > XML running under Native Oberon. As soon as you manage that you can send me the code. Then I will try to connect with my WebDAV client from Native to the server running on Bluebottle. What I just realized is that XMLParser and XMLScanner will require some thought. A XML scanner running an a server and doing an HALT(99) in the default error handler if it receives faulty XML isn't a good idea I think. A new error handler could be necessary and perhaps some changes in XMLParser. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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SMTP Receive only service
by mcintosh＠vima.austin.tx.us 22 Feb '03

22 Feb '03

The current state of my effort for an SMTP receive only service is available at http://mailbottle.vima.austin.tx.us/AosSMTPReceiver.0.1.38c.Mod and is typically online at mailbottle.vima.austin.tx.us:25 I find that I learn a lot a couple of months into these 10 hour projects ... In aggregate, all the previous versions of this program have received several hundred messages and placed many of them them into sequentially named files. One persistent problem that occured was ultimately because I thought that the instream.Get() call would block, and it appears to return 0X and the condition instream.res = AosIO.EOF. (Read the fine manual) Another problem was that an SMTP session that attempted to send multiple emails on the same connection revealed errors in my logic to update file names, keep the same file name for the log file and the first message file, and not skip file names between SMTP sessions. On initial testing this is now fixed, depending on what you think the correct behavior should be when either NOOP or RSET are received. I only do the update if the Mail command has been issued. This version does not have any time-out support. In addition, it is not very nice when it is given incorrect input, such as would happen when a person types SMTP into port 25 by hand. In some earlier versions, I incorporated the "TO: " recipient into the file name, and ended up with some names such as Mail:G000000812.mcintosh@vima.austin.tx.us.Msg This was very convenient for some purposes, but it only worked on a FAT file system, and not the AOS file system. The motivation to do this is that, when delivered in this way, all of the work has been finished by the receiver for local mail, and a POP3 or IMAP4 server can work directly on the Directory. -- Aubrey McIntosh

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Directory on BlueBottle Web server.
by mcintosh＠vima.austin.tx.us 22 Feb '03

22 Feb '03

I would like to have the BlueBottle web server return a list of files when the URL specifies a directory. Has anyone else made a plugin to make this so?

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Re (2): [Oberon] PPP & multi-tasking/initialising
by peter_easthope＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 22 Feb '03

22 Feb '03

Chris, cg> It will be difficult for me to get this book [_The Oberon System_] in a hurry. Ch. 15 is only 19 pages. Provide an address and I'll mail a photocopy. Pity that the older references haven't come out on CD. cg> "PPP design & debugging" James Carlson Thanks. I'll check the bookstore. cg> 1. does S3 multitasking use an equal time slice for each task of the 'circular sequence' of tasks ? No. That requires multiple suspendable processes. Quoting from page 158: "Since tasks are not pre-empted by the system, it is essential that task handlers do not seize control over extended periods of time (the recommended period is less than 100 ms.)". cg> 2. How could the Ctrl+<break> (TRAP 13 Keyboard interrupt) allow the 'hung state' of the PPP' to release'. Question for Edgar or Pieter. cg> 3. any other descriptions or pointers re. S3 multitasking. Try to get Pieter Muller's thesis. (Is it on line?) cg> I believe that an understanding of S3 multi-tasking is needed to understand the symptoms which I described. If the problem stems from the indefinite timing of the S3 event loop, the best solution might be to use Aos. Regards, Peter E.

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