May 2003 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

PPP and overall Oberon coordination
by Edgar＠EdgarSchwarz.de 06 May '03

06 May '03

Chris Glur wrote: > cg> Did you miss my discussion about not using "@" as a parsing token > by assuming that it won't be included in the <Password> > or <ServiceName> strings. > Peter E. wrote: > > No. In fact I refer to this issue briefly > > in the "Notes on Oberon PPP" cited in > > http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/. > > James Carlson> RFCs 1334 (for PAP) and 1994 (for CHAP) > > describe the peer name field as just a sequence of octets ... I guess Chris, Peter and me are the only people in the whole world using Oberon PPP so I think we can decide what to do :-) NetSystem.SetUser for me just was a convenient way to maintain users and passwords for PPP also. As long as my user and password hasn't any special characters (Even if PAP allows them) this is fine with me. Now Chris has a problem with '@'. So there are two ways to go: 1. Somebody who feels responsible for NetSystem.SetUser implements or allows to extend it e.g. by using an escape syntax (%, \, 0x, ... whatever you like). 2. I (or a collaborator) adds a PPPMain.SetUser with an escape feature. I still think the syntax with ':' and '@' isn't bad. So speak up. > I'm again harping on the same complaint: that ETH-oberon > is not centrally coordinated enough to allow effective outside > contribution. I still hope that WebDAV can help here. I just uploaded WebDAV.0.11.Zip to my homepage. BTW it's also mentioned on the projects page of www.webdav.org now. An upgrade on my test server on ETH will probably follow tomorrow. So you can see that I have ETH support with this. Perhaps you wonder whether all this takes me so long. It's not so much a matter of complexity. The main problem is that I didn't have much time for many months. And during my easter holidays I was ill for a week :-( Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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The performance of oberon, -source code
by Yuan Yuan 05 May '03

05 May '03

Can I take a look at the code for benchmark performance of oberon? since I am a beginner of oberon langguage, it might very useful for me to look at the code. thanks~

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Re: [Oberon] Unintended feature activation of Mail.Send
by peter_easthope＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 05 May '03

05 May '03

Chris, cg> * How can I prevent this happening ? cg> * Am I right that the unintended mode is set for the rest of the file-list once it is detected in the first 'bad argument' of: Mail.Send <list of files> ? In that case I should put files that may be non-ascii at the end of the list of: Mail.Send <list of files> ? cg> * Do any readers know what the 2 possible conditions are that set the "send AsciiCoder-compression-attatchment-mode" ? Ie. what are conditions: MIME.EncAsciiCoder, MIME.EncAsciiCoderC ? Sorry Chris but I have no significant insights to these questions. A few months ago I noticed what appeared to be an inconsistency between the implementation of Mail.Send ^ and a pertinent comment, and suggested a correction to Pieter M. Also, I have been unable to have messages automatically deleted from the POP server after retrieval with the Mail.Panel in PC Native 05.01.2003 (2003-01-05). When time is available for Oberon source texts, I try to direct the effort to PPP. Outside of PPP, the best I can do is to report concerns as clearly as possible and hope that they are addressed in a future release. Beyond these "repair issues" I have an idea for the input interface to implement and have never made any real progress with the driver for the old Hercules video. There is never enough time for everything we want to do. Regards, Peter E. Web pages: search for "peter lyall easthope"

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Unintended feature activation of Mail.Send
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 05 May '03

05 May '03

Native-oberoners, I noticed recently in a posting of Peter Easthope the compressed "AsciiCoder.DecodeText %" attatched duplicate of the original text; which I guessed that he had sent by mistake. Now, I too, for the first time that I remember seeing it, find that my command: Mail.Send <list of files> , posts the <list of files> each with the AsciiCoder-compression attatchment !! Why ? This is bad ! I'm guessing that if the file to be e-mailed, has any ORD(char) > 127 then ISO 8bit is automagically selected ? I still have the file which triggered the "send AsciiCoder-compression-attatchment-mode". But a quick visual inspection didn't show any strange characters. Mail.Mod shows: ROCEDURE SendReplyLine*(S: NetTools.Session; cont: MIME.Content); BEGIN S.reply := "Done "; CASE cont.encoding OF MIME.EncBin: Strings.Append(S.reply, "ASCII") |MIME.Enc8Bit: Strings.Append(S.reply, "ASCII (ISO 8bit)") |MIME.Enc7Bit: Strings.Append(S.reply, "ASCII (ISO 7bit)") |MIME.EncQuoted: Strings.Append(S.reply, "ASCII (ISO quoted)") |MIME.EncAsciiCoder, MIME.EncAsciiCoderC: Strings.Append(S.reply, "Oberon + Text") <--!!! |MIME.EncAsciiCoderCPlain: Strings.Append(S.reply, "Oberon") .... But I really don't want to analyse this if somebody can just give the answer. {Have you seen the size of the IMPORT list of Mail.Mod !! } * How can I prevent this happening ? * Am I right that the unintended mode is set for the rest of the file-list once it is detected in the first 'bad argument' of: Mail.Send <list of files> ? In that case I should put files that may be non-ascii at the end of the list of: Mail.Send <list of files> ? * Do any readers know what the 2 possible conditions are that set the "send AsciiCoder-compression-attatchment-mode" ? Ie. what are conditions: MIME.EncAsciiCoder, MIME.EncAsciiCoderC ? Thanks for any answers, Chris Glur --

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Re: Re. [Oberon] helpful additions to Oberon.Text
by peter_easthope＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 04 May '03

04 May '03

Chris, cg> ... degenerated to top posting ( apparently outspook 'promotes' top-posting ?). Please tell me what "top-posting" means. I do not know this term. Thanks, Peter E.

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Re. [Oberon] helpful additions to Oberon.Text
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 03 May '03

03 May '03

cg> Did you miss my discussion about not using "@" as a parsing token by assuming that it won't be included in the <Password> or <ServiceName> strings. Peter E. wrote: > No. In fact I refer to this issue briefly > in the "Notes on Oberon PPP" cited in > http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/. > > James Carlson> RFCs 1334 (for PAP) and 1994 (for CHAP) > describe the peer name field as just a sequence of octets ... > > Accepted. If you have worked out an improved > means of handling the parameters please publish > it here or at least forward it to someone > affiliated with the ETH so that it might > be incorporated in the next release. > > If only a few more of us could volunteer as > much time for Oberon/AOS as does André Fischer. Well yes, but I'm convinced of the efficiency of heirarchical guidance: 'management by objective', 'top down design' etc. Even apparently 'dispersed' systems like an ant colony, or the free-market economy are directed by a higher uniform coordinator. Ant genes and 'economic rules' in these cases. I'm again harping on the same complaint: that ETH-oberon is not centrally coordinated enough to allow effective outside contribution. I've had to privately hack my e-mailer and NetSystem/Dialer/ppp to avoid being force to use M$-outspook. I'm probably the world's heaviest user of ETH-oberon internet connection facilities. We see that most posters to this list use outspook. A senior ETH member has even degenerated to top posting ( apparently outspook 'promotes' top-posting ?). Due to lack of commitment ETH-oberon's NetSystem/Dialer/ppp facilities are falling into disuse. In this specific matter of "handling the parameters" we need first a 'higher authority' to acknowledge (or not) that the previous system of using "@" as a token separator is unsound. Otherwise we are just making a better journey to the wrong destination. I've made my contribution by investigating the higher question, of whether "@" is a valid/possible char for Username or password. Chris Glur -- PS. several posters to News: comp.protocols.ppp are very clued up. My first evaluation of posters's "quality" rejects all top posters. Then I see if they answer *each* question, or just give an overview. James Carlson and other(s) have pointed out that following the RFCs is even not 'good enough'. Here's a post that demonstrates assumptions that can give problems later - like n-o's assumption that no UserId/Password will contain "@". --------Subject: Re: LCP terminated by peer > ]Try to remove "noauth" option. > > That is only relevant if the other side wants to authenticate itself to > you. You will need it if you have an ethernet card, since pppd assumes > that if you have an ethernet card, you are the ISP. Bad assumption in > this day and age, but that is one of pppd's "features". -------- There is also an invalid assumption in our TextMail.Mod . Just because it worked for the last 10 years, doesn't prove it's OK. PSS. just look at this quality coaching that's available off the net. And for n-o users, you can 'color/hi-lite' the: "rcvd [LCP ConfReq ...auth chap" corresponding to his: "The peer asks you to identify yourself via standard CHAP. etc. ...... " -------- From: James Carlson <james.d.carlson(a)sun.com> Subject: Re: pppd & sighup shojo64(a)aol.com (shojo) writes: > I am Currently trying to set up my modem (Creative Modem Blaster v.92, > 56K)and am having trouble staying connected. There is a login and > password prompt which is negotiated succesfully. Then, there is some > info I don't understand before the signal hangs up(SIGHUP). SIGHUP by itself just means that the peer has hung up. It doesn't convey much more information than hearing <click> <dial-tone>. > Apr 26 19:48:08 little-vehicle pppd[2988]: sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 > <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xee0a7963> <pcomp> <accomp>] > Apr 26 19:48:08 little-vehicle pppd[2988]: rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 < > 00 04 00 00> <mru 1524> <asyncmap 0xa0000> <auth chap MD5> <pcomp> > <accomp> <mrru 1524> <endpoint [MAC:00:c0:7b:98:cc:21]> < 1b 04 02 > 02>] The peer asks you to identify yourself via standard CHAP. > Apr 26 19:48:08 little-vehicle pppd[2988]: sent [LCP ConfRej id=0x1 < > 00 04 00 00> <auth chap MD5> <mrru 1524> < 1b 04 02 02>] You refuse to identify yourself by any means at all -- neither CHAP nor PAP. > Apr 26 19:48:08 little-vehicle pppd[2988]: rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 > <mru 1524> <asyncmap 0xa0000> <auth pap> <pcomp> <accomp> <endpoint > [MAC:00:c0:7b:98:cc:21]>] The peer persists, and this time asks you to identify yourself with PAP. > Apr 26 19:48:08 little-vehicle pppd[2988]: sent [LCP ConfRej id=0x2 > <auth pap>] You once again refuse to identify yourself. > Apr 26 19:48:09 little-vehicle pppd[2988]: rcvd [LCP TermReq id=0x3] The peer gives up in frustration. > Can anybody point me in a direction? Yes. Your authentication information is misconfigured. In general, you need to specify the 'user' option to pppd to provide your local user name, and then put your credentials into the appropriate file. Assuming CHAP is right for this peer, do this in pppd's configuration: user yourname and this in /etc/ppp/chap-secrets: yourname * "your password" * -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking <james.d.carlson(a)east.sun.com> Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.234W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.497N Fax +1 781 442 1677 ----------------------- PSSS. Judging from the volume of Newsgroup queries ppp setup is one of the users greatest problems - it's worth knowing how to handle.

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Re: Re. [Oberon] helpful additions to Oberon.Text
by peter_easthope＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 03 May '03

03 May '03

Chris & others, cg> Did you miss my discussion about not using "@" as a parsing token by assuming that it won't be included in the <Password> or <ServiceName> strings. No. In fact I refer to this issue briefly in the "Notes on Oberon PPP" cited in http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/. James Carlson> RFCs 1334 (for PAP) and 1994 (for CHAP) describe the peer name field as just a sequence of octets ... Accepted. If you have worked out an improved means of handling the parameters please publish it here or at least forward it to someone affiliated with the ETH so that it might be incorporated in the next release. If only a few more of us could volunteer as much time for Oberon/AOS as does André Fischer. Incidently, http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/native/ contains the headings "Latest PC Native Release (2.3.6) [next release early 2003]" and "Latest PC Native Beta Release (08.12.00) [next beta early 2003]". Does this mean that a beta release and a full release are still pending? Best Regards, Peter E. Web pages: search "peter lyall easthope" --- start of oberon mail --- TZ@hE9<P3m]eE^Y]\b=V`dUCM\^eU6e]di3B>2`7<0<P?877P2lYR]\bm]^=V`d50X:80G91LXXE ^YM^PdTPl]d5]UE^cUU=\QSm\n4T4=]T5Tim]e5T]=]cM^P\]i5TT=]cM\eM^c=]_e]P<\Rm]eU^ Pd]_U^P\^c=]^m\PDT0ETP<\c5TQ5T`=\bM^Ye]W9MOkJ;[KKXHc;83kLWKMKKJMkI1Ad6Fj2bdB G@NggjfCBG@:fb2bdjfabfjBfbBF@VFg2BjRfb2BN2e`>giNgg:Gbjc6nFi2BN>eb:GkVfaFFW6f fFFO2biBGiVFgNfijB@f`6jdgjB@2bTjF@Jf`>Fj2bT2BiFFcFFi2BjnF@BGdVfi2bd>giFgb2Ba :gdFFcbfl2b6VFg2Bj@Ajdg\\c98O[K1iC5KIUSP4Z@5ZR4TS=]d]\T544T=4]dU^`EW_lUS=\be ]_U^^4^QU^Xm]\m]W=_^\^RM\^L\QmU^4T=XB3KK;kL1i@3[LIkLO[Km98UZA7jL1I<Wi<Y98AYI O[L19D3:DC983[K9;8SI>c9=19:=37:B3:DCI39KIWkHUKJ5KI19MAKI2gbFFi2Bg6ffFF@JfdFF fBF@6fi2BeFgiBG@6F@>gb6gjFFg>fb2bgJF@nfaBgbBgi2BGjBGf`66da>fb2GjFFbjB@2bTJF@ VggFWX=\f]\Pl^_E^[]\T5T_]^d5TQe]P<]]5^bm]f]\T5T=\]U=\^M^Pl]V5TX=\^U\\=]^m\P` bHH6ffFFjFFi>G@2GfFf`>gb2BhFGabfd>Gdf`dBG@Rfb:gb2bg:G@6Fj2BfFf`T^Pd\_E^g=\bU \P<=Bgg2binffFfgjfb2b66FcJfdbfd6FjFFbl^YU^X5Td5]UIAY:B1iLO;8Y;J3SYafVfcRFjf@ aFF@V6O[LQkKUKHYKI9cd8MXK;;NY;8UKIIKI3kL;[;KH3CZI1iKM;Kc;83;8=KI_;8KkKUKI1iK =cj>G@>fgFGfBF@JggbfjjFjFfb:WQM>KHK[kHA;8YKJKKI1ag:G@nDaP_<X?MZP<\c5TTm]UM^P <X^U\b5bPdXYM^S5]UE^^\Q=<Y^M\YU\Ue]dU]iUUP4]dU^`Qgm^geU_E\UQ^\\d5]jeUS5]_d]Q U^Ye^UmU=L\_e]d=\Ye]c5Td5]U9J;KH9KJMkIW;859C3;M;kLY;8Qj@1YC3;MCSPD:IKI88K8:U Y;WY;]I:1iFMKIa;M0HI3[LIKN1Y<Q9<WIG5983[K9;859C33\Q@MXPd9P2]\d=\PDZU14U`4W^< VbdU`4VY4TKe=XH;;M3c6Ff`:Gf0X;1989jK;kLBGdV6KKI3[K19M663;85KIY3UKIIKI``j63Cc FGfbF@:gb0D^U5TcU^YU]\5T`]\^U\Ye]WmW=\Q2]\cU^PDZUm\QE^TM^\4TP4TP4ZUU^UE^P\X^ \Q=lZUE\P4^Qm\UM^j4Tc]\QE^S5]PDT`]\dQ\=_QU]\5TU=\cU^Xm]`]\R\QKGX9]XBmP5805I1 2`04a4402`l80180D1E`ooO:40380ooo7j@K;I:@TVGhFFiBdg>fijBSnFfbfgNGVVFg^F@2bB2b AnDhBG@2bA^dbVW;]\ii0g4O:LYC164A;MY3>6PQ10P@5Z@e]_U>jBdBgfbV18Bc;L;3XC;kMIJJ McQnFgD^_U=280$

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Re. [Oberon] helpful additions to Oberon.Text
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 02 May '03

02 May '03

> Here are a few additions to InitCommands > in Oberon.Text which I would find helpful. > I expect these additions would save a > novice some time as well as grief. > > { !FileSystem.Mount USR AosFS IDEm#0n ~ } > { !FileSystem.SetDefault USR } > { FileSystem.Watch } > { Diskettes.Install } {* Most PCs have a floppy drive. *} > ... > { NetSystem.SetUser > dialup:<Userid>:<Password>@<ServiceName> ~ } > {* Most users prefer to not type passwords. *} Did you miss my discussion about not using "@" as a parsing token by assuming that it won't be included in the <Password> or <ServiceName> strings. The <Password> could be allocated (perhaps even computer generated), by 'outsiders' - eg. the ISP. Ie. not your choice. Here's a dialogue with the man who wrote the ppp book:- Chris Glur ----------------------------------------------------- From: James Carlson <james.d.carlson(a)sun.com> Subject: Re: password, special chars to be quoted ? eas-lab(a)absamail.co.za writes: > Does this: 'quotes around special chars' apply to software that reads > the user-name/password before ppp mode, ie. has nothing to do > with what is sent to ppp ? I don't use any such software. If there is such software, you'll have to consult its documentation. > Previously login user-name/password usually had no special characters. > Then my latest ISP allocated me (perhaps computer generated) a > user-name including a "@". This messed up my software (Oberon S3), > which 'used' the following: > NetSystem.SetUser pap:<user>[:<password>]@<provider> ~ > > Ie. (in this context) it used "@" as a token separator. Yeah, that looks like a bummer. Specifying "\@" may work. > Some other Oberon S3 users say that my ISP is 'bad'. Bah! There are no restrictions on a user name string. This software is wrong. More that that, such an interpretation is strictly incompatible with NAIs (Proposed Standard RFC 2486), which are often used as "user names" in this context. What could they be thinking? > I believe that no RFC excludes any special characters in the > login user-name/password nor pap user-name/password. > > Is this right ? You're right. In fact, RFCs 1334 (for PAP) and 1994 (for CHAP) describe the peer name field as just a sequence of octets -- you can put *any* sequence of octets in there, including control characters and even NUL. Most implementations will fail miserably when faced with what the RFC demands, so don't try that at home, kids. ;-} This is why interface specifications for software are really important. Without them, people will just randomly yank characters (such as '@') out of the syntax and assign them new meanings. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking <james.d.carlson(a)east.sun.com> Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.234W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.497N Fax +1 781 442 1677 Chris Glur.

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Oberon Evening 2003 (OE03)
by Philipp.Heuberger＠bluewin.ch 02 May '03

02 May '03

-- (preliminary announcement) -- Hi Oberonfreaks and others, since the 2nd Oberon Evening at JLMC2000 a considerable amount of time has passed and I want to propose a third meeting OE03. There has been continuous progres of the Oberon software during the last two years and I expect strong demand for applications running on a comprehensive software system as the ones that have their origin in the Oberon community. In order to get a reasonable planning, I would like you to look at the following questions and to give me a response. 1. Topics of interest What would you like to know about the current state of the systems? If you have own contributions, please send me a proposal. 2. Date My proposals are Friday the 13th of June 2003 Monday the 16th of June 2003 or Tuesday the 17th of June 2003. Please indicate, which dates are fine with you. 3. Place outside of Zurich This time, I have in mind a meeting place in Winterthur that is well reachable by public transport. Any other proposal? 4. entrance fee To cover organisational expenses including an apéro, I will be asking for an entrance fee of Fr. 20.- payable in advance. Any comments? 5. The door will open at 18 p.m. and the event will start at 19 p.m.. Is the time fine with you? Please send your answers to philipp.heuberger(a)bluewin.ch and add comments and ideas as you like. My plan is to send out the final announcement one week from now. Thank you very much for your attention and possibly in advance for your response. I wish you a good week, Philipp Heuberger

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compiler restriction
by Soren Renner 01 May '03

01 May '03

No more than 2**14 - 1 pointers may appear in a record or the compiler (the one that comes with the latest Bluebottle) chokes. How difficult would it be to change this restriction, so that TYPE ar=ARRAY 500 500 500 OF OBJECT would be acceptable? Yes, I really have a reason to do this . . . sr

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