January 2021 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Indentation in a source in Oberon V2.
by peter＠easthope.ca 22 Jan '21

22 Jan '21

Restoring a source from the original _Project_Oberon_ to a Text is straightforward except for one detail. From the PDF I can't detect whether indentation was blanks or tabs. No indentation is preserved when I select and copy from PDF to the clipboard. Possibly a limitation of evince in Debian 10. From: hklaver at dds.nl (Hans Klaver) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2017 03:13:55 +0200 > ... I would suggest to use one tab character for each indentation. That has been my personal preference. >From joerg.straube at iaeth.ch Sun Jul 23 08:27:26 2017 > Indentation is indeed a totally personal thing. Understood. Therefore I aim to keep the result identical to the originals of N.W. and J.G. >From chris at cfbsoftware.com Sun Jul 23 08:28:17 2017 > a) Wirth's Project Oberon: Two spaces for used for each level of > indentation. Is that known for V2 and the original _Project_Oberon_? Only for the new edition? Thanks, ... P. L. -- Tel: +1 604 670 0140 Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon V1, V2, S3 working under MS-DOS
by peter＠easthope.ca 22 Jan '21

22 Jan '21

From: Pablo Cayuela <pablo.cayuela(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 22:02:46 -0300 > And S3 for DOS needs to be in another group I think, even the link for the > source code of S3 for DOS disappeared in your new edition. I've replaced that line. Please have a look. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon#System_Variants > I don't know about grants in my country. It sounds impossible for me > to access. I only could ask for a limited license. What about Fulbright? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulbright_Program Regards, ... P. L. -- Tel: +1 604 670 0140 Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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Oberon V1, V2, S3 working under MS-DOS
by Pablo Cayuela 21 Jan '21

21 Jan '21

For those who want to use Oberon V1 and V2 (and to compare it to the FPGA Project Oberon), they are working on MS-DOS or compatible one. I tried all of them in DOSBox. [image: imagen.png] You can find executable versions of Oberon V1.0, V1.2, V1.4, V2.0 and even System 3 under MS-DOS here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosoberon/files/ or https://github.com/Classic-Tools/DOSOberon Sources are only found for DOS Oberon System 3 and not working by now: https://github.com/Classic-Tools/Project-Oberon All these material was published by colleague Professor Grardo Ospina and he gave me some advices (original in Spanish, translated here): *Dear Mr. Pablo Cayuela,I only have access to DOS Oberon System 3 sources, I received them from Andreas R. Distelli in August 1995. I just uploaded them to GitHub in a public repository (https://github.com/Classic-Tools/Project-Oberon <https://github.com/Classic-Tools/Project-Oberon>). Some files have fonts errors and not all files match the latest official version (System 3 Release 2.0). Assembling Extender.Asm <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=Extender…> results in a non-functional oberon.com <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=oberon.c…> component.Attached in this email, a modified version of Extender.Asm <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=Extender…> that apparently generates a version very close to the oberon.com <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=oberon.c…> of the latest official version, although no extensive testing has been performed. YOU must use MASM 5.1 to assemble and exe2bin to generate oberon.com <http://oberon.com>, if the DOS you are using does not contain this tool, you can use exe2com, by Chris Dunford, available on the internet.Cordial greeting,Prof. Gerardo OspinaCenter for Computational Architecture and Security StudiesProf. Computational Architecture and Operating SystemsSystems EngineeringColombian School of Engineering Julio GaravitoBogotáColombia* The version of Extender that he sent me is here: https://github.com/pcayuela/Project-Oberon/tree/main/Building-Ospina I hope that you find these versions useful or informative. Best regards, Prof. Pablo Cayuela Argentina PS: I've updated system variants in Oberon wikibook https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon#System_Variants

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Undocumented FP feature in RISC5
by Hellwig Geisse 21 Jan '21

21 Jan '21

Hi all, while working on a re-implementation of RISC5, I stumbled over a feature of the floating-point adder, which is not documented in the paper "The RISC Architecture" (dated NW 5.12.10, rev. 9.8.2018), not even in section 4 (Special Features). The FP adder is able to perform the conversion functions REAL->INTEGER ("FLOOR" in Oberon) and INTEGER->REAL ("FLT" in Oberon). These operations are choosen on the basis of the u- and v-bits of the format part of the instruction, which in this case is "FAD". A quick look into ORG.Mod (the code generator of the compiler) reveals that these instructions are indeed generated (ORG.Floor, ORG.Float), and thus must be implemented in hardware; otherwise, the compiler back-end must be changed. Hellwig

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Oberon genealogy graph.
by peter＠easthope.ca 21 Jan '21

21 Jan '21

From: "Chris Burrows" <chris(a)cfbsoftware.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 09:01:45 +1030 > I recommend that the link from Oberon-2 to Oberon-07 be > removed. From: Joerg <joerg.straube(a)iaeth.ch> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 17:29:14 +0100 > Medos-2 written in Modula-2: > https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch/handle/20.500.11850/137906 Revisions made and Andreas' language and system revisions added. DOT source. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope/sandbox SVG which most browsers should render. http://easthope.ca/oberongenealogy.svg The arrow from Ceres to Oberon System should be inverted? Some arrow crossings aren't resolved well. I don't know how to improve that. Further suggestions welcome. If this result is acceptable, I'll move it over to the book. Thx, ... P. L. -- Tel: +1 604 670 0140 Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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Re (2): Oberon V1, V2, S3 working under MS-DOS
by peter＠easthope.ca 21 Jan '21

21 Jan '21

Pablo, > Sorry Peter for my ugly edition of the wikibook! Adding DOS Oberon is a good idea, thanks. > ... sandbox on Wikipedia You have a sandbox in each project. Wikibooks sandbox and Wikipedia sandbox are distinct. A sandbox is very simple. Log in. Click on "Sandbox" at the top of the screen. Type or paste any text. Click "Show preview" at the bottom. View the result. Continue editing or click "Save result" or click "Cancel". > Yes, it could be one line for all versions, ... Done. Your information remains there in a more spartan form. The multiple installation archives are found easily via the one link. For instructions, the latest README.TXT is linked. That includes most of the material from preceding versions. The software is cited as the original report by A.R. Disteli. > I only want to emphasize that are unique V1 and V2 working right now, Do the V1 and V2 for DOS Oberon correspond to V1 and V2 for Ceres? Distinct versioning for distinct systems? Disteli might explain in the report. > unless we'll find Ceres versions The Oberon sources are available in the original _Project_Oberon_. You can also see Texts.Mod at https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/V2/Texts.Mod . Other modules can be added in https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/V2/ ; just some work for anyone interested. I can't help with the assembler code for Ceres. Someone needs to power up a machine and retrieve it. Many grants support visiting professors. Investigate and find a grant to support a sabbatical at an institution in the Mountain View area. Several universities are in the South Bay Area. Then you can have access to the Ceres machines at the CHM and make one of them work. Building a machine with wirewrap is also possible. If the DOS Oberon information in the wikibook is too spartan it can be expanded. WIth care. Progress, thanks, ... P. L. -- Tel: +1 604 670 0140 Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon V1, V2, S3 working under MS-DOS
by peter＠easthope.ca 19 Jan '21

19 Jan '21

From: Pablo Cayuela <pablo.cayuela(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2021 17:15:40 -0300 > PS: I've updated system variants in Oberon wikibook Pablo, thanks for adding DOS Oberon. I haven't thought about it since years ago. I have these concerns. (1) The row for JVM now has only 4 columns. The language column has vanished. I guess that a rowspan number is deficient by 1. If a row is added inside a rowspan, the rowspan number should be incremented. (2) For DOS Oberon, information is duplicated across the columns "Software", "Installation archive" and "Installation instructions". The Software column need only identify the software briefly. The Installation archive column need only give a short link to the archive. The Installation instructions column need only give a short link to the instructions. (3) Good to know that four versions of DOS Oberon are available but if all are listed, DOS Oberon takes more than one quarter of the table. Can we have one row for DOS Oberon connecting to https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosoberon/ ? There a reader will see immediately versions 1.0, 1.2, 1.4 and 2.0. Will that suffice? (4) Is there a correspondence between Oberon V1, V2, S3 and DOS Oberon versions? If so, it might be stated. I'm concerned about making the table too bulky. A value of the table is having information centralized. That helps to give a reader an overview. Also to give ready access to essential information. If the table becomes too bulky, these benefits are diminished. My recommendation: A good way to introduce a revision is to first copy the section to your sandbox. There it can be revised and discussed. When the revision receives a concensus of agreement, then it can be copied back to the book. Sorry if my approach seems harsh. The intention is to keep the book as "user friendly" and efficient as possible. Not to oppose contributions and improvement. Best Regards and Thanks, ... P. L. -- Tel: +1 604 670 0140 Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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Oberon V1, V2, S3 working under MS-DOS
by Pablo Cayuela 19 Jan '21

19 Jan '21

For those who want to use Oberon V1 and V2 (and to compare it to the FPGA Project Oberon), they are working on MS-DOS or compatible one. I tried all of them in DOSBox, you can see all of them working here: https://github.com/pcayuela/DOSOberon/blob/master/Oberon%20V1%20(3%20versio… You can find executable versions of Oberon V1.0, V1.2, V1.4, V2.0 and even System 3 under MS-DOS here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/dosoberon/files/ or https://github.com/Classic-Tools/DOSOberon Sources are only found for DOS Oberon System 3 and not working by now: https://github.com/Classic-Tools/Project-Oberon All these material was published by colleague Professor Grardo Ospina and he gave me some advices (original in Spanish, translated here): *Dear Mr. Pablo Cayuela,I only have access to DOS Oberon System 3 sources, I received them from Andreas R. Distelli in August 1995. I just uploaded them to GitHub in a public repository (https://github.com/Classic-Tools/Project-Oberon <https://github.com/Classic-Tools/Project-Oberon>). Some files have fonts errors and not all files match the latest official version (System 3 Release 2.0). Assembling Extender.Asm <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=Extender…> results in a non-functional oberon.com <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=oberon.c…> component.Attached in this email, a modified version of Extender.Asm <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=Extender…> that apparently generates a version very close to the oberon.com <https://ssl.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?ref=TAns&from=&to=en&a=oberon.c…> of the latest official version, although no extensive testing has been performed. YOU must use MASM 5.1 to assemble and exe2bin to generate oberon.com <http://oberon.com>, if the DOS you are using does not contain this tool, you can use exe2com, by Chris Dunford, available on the internet.Cordial greeting,Prof. Gerardo OspinaCenter for Computational Architecture and Security StudiesProf. Computational Architecture and Operating SystemsSystems Engineering Colombian School of Engineering Julio GaravitoBogotáColombia* The version of Extender that he sent me is here: https://github.com/pcayuela/Project-Oberon/tree/main/Building-Ospina I hope that you find these versions useful or informative. Best regards, Prof. Pablo Cayuela Argentina PS: I've updated system variants in Oberon wikibook https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon#System_Variants Previous email with the image attached did not reach the list or it was rejected, sorry if two email copies finally arrived.

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon genealogy.
by Chris Burrows 18 Jan '21

18 Jan '21

> -----Original Message----- > From: Oberon [mailto:oberon-bounces@lists.inf.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of > peter(a)easthope.ca > Sent: Tuesday, 19 January 2021 2:27 AM > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Subject: [Oberon] Re (2): Oberon genealogy. > > From: Joerg <joerg.straube(a)iaeth.ch> > Date: Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 9:17 AM > > Just as a remark to the genealogy: > > a yellow box =E2=80=9EMedos-2=E2=80=9C could be added; running on > > (red) Lil= ith HW > > https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch/handle/20.500.11850/137906 > > Medos-2 can be seen as grand grand father of today=E2=80=98s Oberon > system. > > I need help arranging the diagram properly. > > Lilith is in the Wikipedia. "1977, Lilith" is in Ivan's diagram. > According to Wikipedia, the machine was developed '78-'80. Either > '77 is too early or Wikipedia is too late. > The following is described in section 1.4 Historical Notes of Diss. ETH No. 7646, "Lilith: A Workstation Computer for Modula-2", by Richard Ohran, Zurich 1984. "The following timetable outlines significant events in the Lilith project: Oct 1977 Start of Project Sep 1978 Completion of the first (wirewrap) prototype at ETH - without disk Sep 1979 Completion of second prototype (printed circuits) Jan 1980 Start of 30 unit production at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah Jun 1980 Medos-2 operational on Lilith Compiler transferred from PDP-11 Oct 1980 Delivery of 10 units to ETH ..." Regards, Chris Burrows CFB Software https://www.cfbsoftware.com/modula2

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon genealogy.
by Chris Burrows 18 Jan '21

18 Jan '21

> -----Original Message----- > From: Oberon [mailto:oberon-bounces@lists.inf.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of > Skulski, Wojciech > Sent: Tuesday, 19 January 2021 2:28 AM > To: ETH Oberon and related systems > Subject: Re: [Oberon] [EXT] Re: Oberon genealogy. > > August: > > >I could be wrong but I have the impression that Oberon-2 is mostly > >Hanspeter Mössenböck's invention although Niklaus Wirth is one of > the > >authors of the language report. > > The book "OOP in Oberon-2" was HMB "habilitation", whatever it means. According to Wikipedia: "Habilitation is a qualification required in order to conduct self-contained university teaching, and to obtain a professorship in many European countries" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habilitation > But why should it matter who wrote the book? > It would matter if it was being proposed as evidence to accurately determine the name(s) of designers / inventors to assign to a design / invention in a historical document e.g. the Oberon Genealogy chart Regards, Chris Burrows CFB Software https://www.astrobe.com

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