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Re: [Oberon] Does anyone have the missing source files of Oberon System 3 v2.3.6?
by peter＠easthope.ca 14 Nov '25

14 Nov '25

Greetings Rochus, From: Rochus Keller <me(a)rochus-keller.ch> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2025 20:33:27 +0100 > Kernel.Mod, Modules.Mod and the OP2 compiler source files > (Compiler.Mod, OP*.Mod). Does anyone have and is willing to share > these source files? I'm looking for the exact version of these ... You refer to release 2.3.6 or possibly 2.3.7? Did you check the *.tar.gz archives available via links just below the Native/StdAlone link you cited? https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/ETH_Oberon/download The Sourceforge archive may have been created by Pieter Muller. (I didn't find a page history in Sourceforge.) Regards, ... P.L. -- mobile: +1 778 951 5147 <= still working VoIP: +1 778 508 0020 <= new & working projects: en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Does anyone have the missing source files of Oberon System 3 v2.3.6?
by Rochus Keller 14 Nov '25

14 Nov '25

Hello everyone Both archives referenced in https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/ETH_Oberon/download under Native Oberon Native/StdAlone/ and Native/Update/Beta/ (which seem to be identical anyway) are lacking the Kernel.Mod, Modules.Mod and the OP2 compiler source files (Compiler.Mod, OP*.Mod). Does anyone have and is willing to share these source files? I'm looking for the exact version of these source files which was used to generate the included object files. Best regards Rochus Keller

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Re (2): Simplification & complexification; was, Oberon Text and new systems;
by peter＠easthope.ca 30 Oct '25

30 Oct '25

From: =?UTF-8?B?1bbVuNaA1aHVtdaA?= <norayr(a)arnet.am> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2025 15:00:37 +0400 > speaking of this, take a look at Spartan and Gemini protocols. Thanks Norayr. The petition I'm working on is a very modest thing. May achieve nothing more than bring some attention and understanding. Thx, ... P. -- mobile: +1 778 951 5147 <= still working VoIP: +1 778 508 0020 <= new & working projects: en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Simplification & complexification; was, Oberon Text and new systems;
by peter＠easthope.ca 30 Oct '25

30 Oct '25

From: schierlm at gmx.de (Michael Schierl) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 23:02:57 +0200 > The most complex application on most "smaller" OSes today is the Web > browser. And even when they are several megabytes large, they cannot > adequately parse what "HTML5" has become today (even if you exclude > JavaScript). > ... > So, I would not try to provide any (badly compatible) HTML5 support to a > system like Oberon which tries to be simple and tries to remove what can > be removed. Acknowledged, yet I'm not willing to be completely apathetic in response to growing complexification. Therefore working on a specific petition to the Canadian House of Commons. Description here. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7487 I know this isn't Oberon specific. Definitely is relevant to simplification. To make the petition viable I need to find five residents of Canada willing to support it. When I have five supporters, will ask my M.P. Elizabeth May to authorize it. The name and address of each supporter will then be submitted to the Clerk of Petitions in Ottawa. I'm interested to hear from anyone willing to volunteer support. Thanks, ... Peter E. -- mobile: +1 778 951 5147 <= still working VoIP: +1 778 508 0020 <= new & working projects: en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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Which are the latest available Shark Oberon sources?
by Rochus Keller 26 Oct '25

26 Oct '25

Hello everyone The repository github pcayuela/oldftpETHZOberon/tree/master/System3/Native/SharkOberon/.beta includes a file "SharkOberon.zip" with 260 module sources and modification dates from 1999-03-05 to 2001-04-08. Kernel.version is set to "Shark Native 99.12.02". The readme.txt says "SharkOberon is an implementation of Native Oberon System 3 Release 2.3 for the DEC DNARD Network Computer." Are these the latest available Shark Oberon sources, or does anyone have a more recent version? Was this version known to actually work on the DEC DNARD Network Computer? Best regards Rochus Keller

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[SPAM | WERBUNG] Is there an Oberon System 3 or 4 version known to work on modern Linux kernels?
by Rochus Keller 23 Aug '25

23 Aug '25

I downloaded and tried all Linux x86 versions of the original Oberon Systems 3 and 4 I found and tried to run them on Debian Bookworm, but I get nothing but segfaults. Does anyone have a version which was built with and includes a OP2 lineage compiler, and which runs on current Linux kernels? Thanks R.K.

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Re: [Oberon] Is there an Oberon System 3 or 4 version known to work on modern Linux kernels? (Michael Schierl)
by Mike McGaw 25 Jul '25

25 Jul '25

Michael Schierl makes good points, here. After all, we are comparing two different strands of work, one of which involved a handful of persons (students) for a relatively small amount of time, leading to a compiler whose source is measured in a few thousand lines, and the other, against the bleeding edge C-based strand, which has consumed man-years (excuse me, person-years) by the hundreds if not thousands, and for which the source package certainly must be closing in on a number >= 100K lines by now. All in all, OP2 or Oberon90 as it is being called in this thread, holds up rather well, it seems to me, in this comparison. Speed of code execution, is one thing, and today, we can choose CPUs to suit our performance requirements to offset what the compiler may do. I would guess that the OP2/Oberon90 compiler, on today's platforms, fairly well rips through a larger compile job (compile itself, for example), and that the C-based strands still take much longer (but gratefully not quite the same go-for-a-coffee compile experience common for 1990's C compilers running on the same hardware vintage). The exercise that Rochus Keller is doing is quite interesting never-the-less, as it sheds light on how things have evolved. -Mike On Friday, July 25, 2025 at 06:00:07 AM EDT, <oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote: Send Oberon mailing list submissions to oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch You can reach the person managing the list at oberon-owner(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: [SPAM] [SPAM | WERBUNG] Re: Is there an Oberon System 3 or 4 version known to work on modern Linux kernels? (Michael Schierl) 2. Re: Is there an Oberon System3 or 4 version known to work on modern Linux kernels? (Rochus Keller) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2025 23:28:02 +0200 From: Michael Schierl <schierlm(a)gmx.de> To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [Oberon] [SPAM] [SPAM | WERBUNG] Re: Is there an Oberon System 3 or 4 version known to work on modern Linux kernels? Message-ID: <6691c104-48bb-464a-a287-ba2376580200(a)gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hello Rochus, Am 24.07.2025 um 02:19 schrieb Rochus Keller: > > In case anyone is interested, I migrated a subset of the Are-we-fast-yet benchmark suite to Oberon 90 > and run it on the Oberon System V4 release 1.7 x86 on two different machines and Linux versions. > > The summary can be found at github.com/rochus-keller/Are-we-fast-yet/blob/main/Oberon90/Results/Summary… > It compares the Oberon with the C performance with different optimization levels. That does not surprise me at all. More interesting would be using a "period correct" gcc version (i.e. something created at the same time as the Oberon compiler, more like gcc2 than gcc12). Or at least limit it to the instruction set emitted by the Oberon compiler (I assume it is equivalent to -march=i386). Modern gcc versions usually either target MMX or even AVX and this makes a huge difference when unrolling loops with maths in them. And on the other hand, when you want to see what an optimizing compiler can do on your machine, use "-march=native -mtune=native" to generate code that uses the exact instruction set of the machine you are compiling on (Spoiler: Probably not much difference. However, it will *decrease* the gap between 32-bit and 64-bit as the default 32-bit target is something like Pentium2 and the default 64-bit target is quite a bit newer). Regards, Michael ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2025 02:21:38 +0200 From: Rochus Keller <me(a)rochus-keller.ch> To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [Oberon] Is there an Oberon System3 or 4 version known to work on modern Linux kernels? Message-ID: <zJcjGYtPBl91XcdXGaH6eg@hld> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 @ Michael Schierl Thanks for the feedback. I didn't look at the details of the OP2 code generator, just at the modification history. The version included with the Oberon System V4 in use is not younger than 1997, and the modification date of the source files is 2004. The Pentium Pro (i686) appeared in 1995. Both GCC versions I used default to i686, so I left the architecture as is. Unfortunately I don't have "period correct" GCC versions, but I think it is fair to assume that at least the -O0 version could be expected to have generated code with similar performance as todays versions. To be on the safe side, I re-run the benchmarks on the EliteBook with GCC 4.8.2 with explicit "-march=i486 -mno-mmx" options. The comments in the Oberon source code state "code generator for Intel i386, i387/ i486", so I assume that -march=i486 is a fair choice (-mno-mmx is redundant when using -march=i486). I added the results to a new sheet in the file "Results Mint Rebecca HP EliteBook 2530p.ods". As you can see, the results are pretty much the same. Maybe NBody would have rendered a bigger difference, but it doesn't work so far, and I didn't use it. Best regards R.K. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer -- Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon ------------------------------ End of Oberon Digest, Vol 253, Issue 8 **************************************

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[SPAM | WERBUNG] Looking for the latest MacOberon files (without running an installer), 2nd posting attempt
by Rochus Keller 07 Jul '25

07 Jul '25

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newcomer
by TealSynapse＠proton.me 15 Jun '25

15 Jun '25

hi all, i'm a newcomer to designing & implementing programs (be it system- application, web or realtime) but not for a lack of interest. i'd love to learn program design & implementation with Oberon-7 or Modula-2 or Pascal-P6, are you who read this sitting on any "beginners self-study courses"? then do send any tips my way, i can begin to (b|v)log about how it goes for me to self-study if that's a motivator to anyone willing to help me to a solid start =) while not exclusive to me, it is increasingly rare so i'll say this, i learn if everything i'm about to learn is accounted for before i sit down - because then i don't have to get up in the middle of learning to start puzzling together my curriculum =) (putting together your own curriculum can be educative, it has indeed been to me in other topics, but after drifting around in search-engine results to "learn programming" and falling into either deep-ends of various niches or all-too-small puddles... the method of "just google it" doesn't hold water to me. humans' curation and guiding hands to eachother are totally replaceable, evidently, but not for the better. i'll gladly find any guiding hands in this mailing list.) so far i'm puzzling together my own curriculum! i am trying =) i came across a self-hosting compiler by Krotov Anton for Oberon-7⁰ https://github.com/AntKrotov/oberon-07-compiler and another self-hosting compiler by Scott Moore for Pascal-P6¹ meanwhile a compiler for Modula-2 is now in the GCC (GNU Compiler Collection) as GCC-GM2 in lieu of hearing me go on about what resources i'm cobbling together for my own curriculum though, i hope to hear from any of you who probably sit on alot of comprehensive knowledge that i'd to well to be initiated by. i often feel like i am fulfilling that Dijkstra quote² when i do cobble together my own curriculum... [0] https://github.com/AntKrotov/oberon-07-compiler [1] https://github.com/samiam95124/Pascal-P6 [2] 'has accepted as its charter "How to program if you cannot."' with high regards, bluemoon

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[SPAM | WERBUNG] Re: [Oberon.Mail] Oberon Digest, Vol 252, Issue 1
by peter＠easthope.ca 11 Jun '25

11 Jun '25

From: Daniel Schmid <daniel.schmid(a)bluemail.ch> Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2025 22:14:06 +0200 > Is Oberon.Mail a real mail Server/Client ? The Mail module in ETH Oberon and in the Oberon subsystem of A2 provides sending by SMTP and retrieval by POP & POP3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_client https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_client#Protocols A2 also supports IMAP. I don't use that and can't tell you about versions. If you find whether IMAP4 is supported, please let me know. I'm not aware of implementation of server capabilities but use client capabilities routinely. My working volume is on a USB store. After retrieving messages by POP3, read off line and at another site. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/ETH_Oberon#Email https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oberon/A2#Email Installation and configuration isn't difficult. If you find a snag, please report to allow improvement of the documentation. Thx, ... P. -- VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 out of service mobile: +1 778 951 5147 work: en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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