January 2003 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Bb Ctrl+Esc
by Yuri M. Skripkah 08 Jan '03

08 Jan '03

Hello , All. Thanks for Bluebottle developers. It look very nice! Now I have some questions: a) Will work Ctrl+Esc sequence for menu in new WM? b) Redrawing is very slowly (try move sized window...) on Pentium 166 simply freeze, on PII-350 not comfortable. Is this essential feature? ( I understand what redraw proceed without acceleration ) And I need more powerful CPU? Or, this is in contrary to leanware and can alter at other time? -- Best regards, Yuri mailto:yurix@i.com.ua

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Re: [Oberon] AosCD.ISO.zip blank screen Aha!
by Edgar＠EdgarSchwarz.de 06 Jan '03

06 Jan '03

Thanks Paul !!! I recently wondered why the BB CD wouldn't boot on my new machine with a DVD but didn't have time to trace the problem. > OK, I now understand what's going on - I put a spare > drive onto the secondary IDE bus and the Aos CD > boots fine. I just had to turn on my removable disk secondary slave :-) > Note that exactly the same problem happens with > Native - I hadn't tried mounting the CD before, Partitions.Show with Native only saw the primary master. No sign of the secondary master before turning on the secondary slave. > Also, the old drive is recognized twice (it IS > old, and I checked the jumpers are set correctly). I have an Epox 8K3A, Athlon XP1800, some Seagate 80GB, Artec DVD. Not that old a configuration I guess. But I can add another observation. On booting (To XP e.g. :-( ) I sometimes notice that the DVD takes a while (Several seconds) to be recognised. I seem to remember that sometimes on booting the DVD wasn't shown but accessing it later from XP worked. So I didn't see that as a big problem. Perhaps the Oberon driver isn't trying hard enough to scan the IDE bus ? Could I have a cable or mechanical contact problem ? Perhaps I schould open the machine, pull out the IDE bus connectors and plug them in again. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/forum/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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AosCD.ISO.zip blank screen Aha!
by Paul Reed 06 Jan '03

06 Jan '03

OK, I now understand what's going on - I put a spare drive onto the secondary IDE bus and the Aos CD boots fine. With only the CD-ROM drive on the secondary bus, the IDE driver fails to reset (see previous trace, compared with working trace below) and IDE3 is not recognized. Any chance of fixing this? Note that exactly the same problem happens with Native - I hadn't tried mounting the CD before, but it only works if a hard drive is added to the bus. Presumably the same driver? Also, the old drive is recognized twice (it IS old, and I checked the jumpers are set correctly). Is this also something which could be fixed? See why Wirth built his own hardware? :) Aos 03.01.2003 Single-processor IDE0..1: 14 000001F0 000003F6 reset ok IDE2..3: 15 00000170 00000376 reset ok <--- that's better! IDE3: no reset IDE0: 520MB, 1057*16*63, ST3660A IDE1: 520MB, 1057*16*63, ST3660A IDE2: 38931MB, 16383*16*63, (79098*16*63), LBA, SAMSUNG SV4084H, ver 6.23 IDE3: packet cd-rom device, removable, IDE-CD ReWritable-2x2x6 IDE0..1: Bus-master enabled IDE2..3: Bus-master enabled SCSI - 1.0 / prk AosAdaptec7 - 0.41 / prk AosDiskFS: Index not found on RAM0 AosDiskFS: Scanning RAM0... marking 0 files AosDiskFS: 31992K of 32000K available on RAM0 AosDiskVolumes: IDE0ATA: early D0 50 invalid partition AosDiskVolumes: IDE1ATA: Status ctrl=000001F0 drv=1 hd=15 sec=0 cyl=0 err=04 st0 error 2817 AosDiskVolumes: IDE2ATA: early D0 50 invalid partition AosDiskVolumes: IDE3#0 {P0 AosDisplayLinear: GlobalSetCacheProperties = 2304} UsbUhci: Initialised USB UHCI controller at base 0D400H, Irq: 9 Default font installedManager.New finished Disp.format = 2 {P0 Bottom up... And so on. Paul Reed

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Bluebottle Oberon Ctrl key
by Necati Ecevit 06 Jan '03

06 Jan '03

Hi, I installed the 2003 version and liked this new WM. I have 2 button PS2 mouse and need Ctrl key to emulate the MM button. I wrote MB=2 in Aos.Par file, but I can not use Ctrl key in Oberon window, i.e., I can not copy and paste with 2 button mouse. In previous versions of the system I could use this key. What should I do to use Ctrl key to emulate MM button ? Happy new years to all. Necati.

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AosCD.ISO.zip blank screen
by Paul Reed 06 Jan '03

06 Jan '03

I downloaded the latest AosCD.ISO.zip yesterday and also got a blank screen when trying to boot from it. Holding the shift key down when booting and setting TraceMode=4, then c to continue, with the help of a LapLink cable and a 19200 baud terminal program I get: Aos 03.01.2003 Single-processor IDE0..1: 14 000001F0 000003F6 reset ok IDE2..3: 15 00000170 00000376 ATA: Status ctrl=00000170 drv=1 lba=268435455 err0 IDE0: 9773MB, 16383*16*63, (19857*16*63), LBA, FUJITSU MPE3102AT, ver 4.0 IDE0..1: Bus-master enabled SCSI - 1.0 / prk AosAdaptec7 - 0.41 / prk AosDiskFS: Index not found on RAM0 AosDiskFS: Scanning RAM0... marking 0 files AosDiskFS: 31992K of 32000K available on RAM0 AosDiskVolumes: IDE0 invalid partition AosConsole: Mount failed on BootVol2 {P0 AosDisplayLinear.Obx not found} {P0 AosKeyboard.Obx not found} {P0 MM.Obx not found} {P0 AosRTL8139.Obx not found} {P0 Autostart.Obx not found} This is with an IDE drive with no Aos partitions at all. An IDE drive with Native installed in one partition and an additional freshly-formatted but blank Aos partition gives: Aos 03.01.2003 Single-processor IDE0..1: 14 000001F0 000003F6 reset ok IDE2..3: 15 00000170 00000376 ATA: Status ctrl=00000170 drv=1 lba=268435455 err0 IDE0: 520MB, 1057*16*63, ST3660A IDE1: 520MB, 1057*16*63, ST3660A IDE0..1: Bus-master enabled SCSI - 1.0 / prk AosAdaptec7 - 0.41 / prk AosDiskFS: Index not found on RAM0 AosDiskFS: Scanning RAM0... marking 0 files AosDiskFS: 31992K of 32000K available on RAM0 AosDiskVolumes: IDE0 invalid partition AosDiskVolumes: IDE1ATA: Status ctrl=000001F0 drv=1 hd=15 sec=0 cyl=0 err=04 st0 error 2817 AosConsole: Mount failed on BootVol2 {P0 AosDisplayLinear.Obx not found} {P0 AosKeyboard.Obx not found} {P0 MM.Obx not found} {P0 AosRTL8139.Obx not found} {P0 Autostart.Obx not found} Question: what is the meaning of the syntax at the end of BootVol2=CD AosFS #0,R and can I give it more info to try to find the CD drive (slave on secondary IDE which is fairly normal)? Paul Reed

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Lost in the blue
by Gérard Meunier 04 Jan '03

04 Jan '03

Hello, I love this new system. But I have a question. Is there a solution, now or later, to find windows again when, after some zoomings, we are lost in the blue. Regards. Gérard

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Re: [Oberon] PPP
by Peter Easthope 03 Jan '03

03 Jan '03

Folk, Edgar Schwarz wrote: es> Doesn't hurt as it is but I changed it now to: ... Thanks. These refinements really do help to make the source more readable. es> I'm thinking of where to put it. Because I don't think it's necessary at the moment to send an update to ETH just for documentation. "Contributions" area at the ETH or your own server? es> ... send me your stuff and I can put it on my site as a version under development before sending it to ETH eventually. Right oh. Notes on troubleshooting the physical layer and a few other details are in progress. Also, I want to have a try at English translations for the source comments currently in German. Give me a few more days. Chris Glur wrote: cg> Thanks for pioneering this. Welcome. Time is available and the problem won't solve itself. cg> It would be interesting/valuable to see a few steps of explanation eg: automaton1, automaton2, corresponding trace/log; with reference to the appropiate RFC(s). Will do what I can. cg> * I've got a problem with PPP.Tool: it breaks the (apparently unwritten) rule that *.Tool is a list of mnemonics with minimum explanitory text. True. cg> (I think also that *.Tool should be specified as viewable under the 'minimum' system: via Edit.Open and with UserTrack char width as per minimum/default - VGA, I guess). Agreed. cg> Its not clear what the useful text of presently named PPP.Tool should be called; perhaps PPP.Text ? Seems right. cg> ... assumption that char "@" (and perhaps other chars) are not part of the ISP login 2 parameters: userID and Userpassword strings; Comments relevant to this are in the notes going to Edgar. Seems that ultimately we need a generalization/extension of the SetUser syntax condoned and incorporated by the ETH. FWIIW, LCP and PAP now appear to negotiate OK and I am working on the IPCP negotiation. Regards, Peter E.

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Empty Bluebottle screen
by Gérard Meunier 02 Jan '03

02 Jan '03

Hello, Today, I tried and installed the new Bluebottle. I get a marvellous blue-magenta screen with a working mouse cursor, but no more. The screen is completely empty. I give below my Aos.par file. Can you tell me what happens and what I can do? Thanks. Gérard # Aos config strings # You must correctly configure at least section 1 below. The other sections have reasonable defaults. # To boot with noboot.exe from DOS (IDE or Adaptec 7xxx SCSI): # c:\native> noboot.exe AosIDE.Bin Aos.Par # For an Adaptec 7xxx SCSI driver, use AosAda7.Bin instead of AosIDE.Bin # To make a bootable partition or Diskette (from Native Oberon or Aos), use the following commands: # Partitions.UpdateBootFile IDE0#01 AOS:AosIDE.Bin ~ # Partitions.SetConfig IDE0#01 # Partitions.UpdateBootFile Diskette0#0 AOS:AosIDE.Bin ~ # Partitions.SetConfig Diskette0#0 # Add "~" at end of this text, so that SetConfig can read its parameters directly here. # --- 1. BOOT PARTITION # Boot device and partition number BootVol1="AOS AosFS IDE2#1" AosFS="AosDiskVolumes.New AosDiskFS.NewFS" # --- 2. DISPLAY DRIVER # VESA 2.0/3.0 display driver (1024x768x16, @60Hz only, unless Init string is changed) Boot="AosDisplayLinear" Init="bb1741b8024fcd10b8014fb91701cd10268b4d28268b552a" DWidth="1024" DHeight="768" DDepth="16" DMem="2048" # 0010 BB1741 mov bx,0x4117 # 0013 B8024F mov ax,0x4f02 # 0016 CD10 int 0x10 # 0000 B8014F mov ax,0x4f01 # 0003 B91701 mov cx,0x117 # 0006 CD10 int 0x10 # 0008 268B4D28 mov cx,[es:di+0x28] # 000C 268B552A mov dx,[es:di+0x2a] # VESA 2.0/3.0 display driver (1280x768x16 @70Hz) #Boot="AosDisplayLinear" #Init="b80b4fbb0000ba1a0166b90085af07cd1026c705c00626c74502580526c74504e0052 6c745062a0426c74508010426c7450a040426c6450c042666894d0d26c74511581bb8024fbb1 a49cd10b8014fb91a01cd10268b4d28268b552a" #DWidth="1280" #DHeight="1024" #DDepth="16" #DMem="4096" # VESA 2.0/3.0 display driver (1280x768x16 @60Hz) #Boot="AosDisplayLinear" #Init="b8024fbb1a41cd10b8014fb91a01cd10268b4d28268b552a" #DWidth="1280" #DHeight="1024" #DDepth="16" #DMem="4096" # 3Dlabs Permedia2 display driver #Boot="AosDisplayPermedia2" #DWidth="1024" #DHeight="768" #DDepth="16" #DMem="2048" #DRefresh="60" # S3 Aurora64 display driver (800x600x8 only, unless Init string is changed) #Boot="AosS3Aurora64" #Init="bb0301b8024fcd10ba00e0b90000" #DWidth="800" #DHeight="600" #DDepth="8" # ATI Mach64 (e.g. Rage Pro) display driver (1024x768x16, 60Hz for LCD display) #Boot="AosDisplayLinear" #Init="b815a0b3008cc233ffcd1026800e040004b815a0b3018cc233ffcd10b802a0b98455c d10b805a0b101cd10b806a0cd108bd3c1e20433c9" #DWidth="1024" #DHeight="768" #DDepth="16" #DMem="2048" # --- 3. ADDITIONAL DRIVERS #Boot1="AosKeyboard;AosMousePS2" Boot1="AosKeyboard;AosMouseSerial" # USB Mouse #Boot1="AosKeyboard;AosMousePS2;AosUsbUhci.Init;UsbMousePoller.Start" # --- 4. STARTUP APPLICATIONS # Aos 2D Menu Boot2="WMDecorate.Install;WMStyle.Install;WMM.OpenMenu" # or 3D menu #Boot2="W3dMenu.Open W3dMenu.XML;WMM.Install" # Autostart executes commands in AosConfig.XML's "Autostart" section Boot3="Autostart.Run" # or Oberon for Aos in full-screen mode (remove Boot3 from above!) #Boot2="AosOberonInput;System.Init" # Boot Oberon with Aos Menu at startup #BootSystem="AosDisplayWM.Install Oberon 900x700;System.Init Oberon" # --- 5. NETWORK DRIVER # No network driver LinkDevice="Unknown" # 3Com 3C90x EtherLink XL 10/100Mbps ethernet driver # 3C90xMedia: 1=10Base-T, 5=100Base-TX (3C900), 6=100Base-RX, 9=auto # 3C90xDuplex: 0=preset, 1=half-duplex, 2=full-duplex #LinkDevice="Aos3Com90x" # Only set following if default does not work #3C90xMedia="9" #3C90xDuplex="2" # 3Com 3C509 EtherLink III 10Mbps ethernet driver #LinkDevice="Aos3Com509" # RTL 8139 10/100Mbps ethernet driver #LinkDevice="AosRTL8139" # --- 6. TCP/IP NETWORK PARAMETERS # (if LocalIP is not defined, BOOTP is attempted) #LocalIP="129.132.134.xx" #LocalName = "xxx.inf.ethz.ch" #Netmask="255.255.255.0" #Gateway="129.132.134.1" #Domain="inf.ethz.ch" #DNS0="129.132.98.12" #DNS1 = "129.132.250.220" #DNS2 = "129.132.250.2" # --- 7. MISCELLANEOUS # Keyboard table options: System.Directory Key*.Bin #Keyboard="KeyCH.Bin" # TraceMode: 1=screen, 2=waitkey, 4=v24 (additive) #TraceMode="4" #TracePort="1" #TraceBPS="38400" #TraceMem="0B8000H,80,25" # Additional tracing #TraceHeap="0" #TraceHeap="4096" # Disk cache size in 4KB units (make negative to enable write-back caching) CacheSize="1000" # Profiling and timeslicing timer rate in Hz (default 1000) #TimerRate=1000 # To enable Ctrl as emulation of the mouse middle button #MB="2" # Automatic power management (APM) must be disabled APM="0" # Disable the primary IDE controller #IDE0="0" # Limit the number of processors recognized (set negative for single-processor emulation) #MaxProcs="1" # Set watchdog timer for Oberon.Loop in seconds #OberonWatch="0" ATABM="0" Keyboard="KeyFR.Bin" ~ uncomment this line when using Partitions.SetConfig

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Multiple incompatibilities with ISPs & PPP project
by eas-lab＠absamail.co.za 02 Jan '03

02 Jan '03

Peter Easthope wrote: > The PPP.Log is really not so difficult to follow; > quite effective and even interesting! > It can be thought of as the transcript of a > conversation between the two automatons. > In the majority of cases the problem will be > in the LCP (Link Control Protocol) negotiations > which involve only the first 5 or so frames in > each direction. Thanks for pioneering this. For fear of opening-a-can-of-worms, I've avoided digging deeper. It would be interesting/valuable to see a few steps of explanation eg: automaton1, automaton2, corresponding trace/log; with reference to the appropiate RFC(s). Then I'll also try to follow it and hopefully add some value. ========= Digression re. how (I think) OPEN colaborative software should proceed. ========= * Only after one years usage/complaining did I get an acknowlegement of an error existing for 'grow-to-full-screen of certain viewers', for n-o version beta 2001. * Only after specifically asking about a fix/work-around did I get a reply regarding a source patch. Further queries as to the method of 'finding the fault' refered to: "Compiler.Compile \f = locate the failing Stmt". This is CLOSED, NOT OPEN colaboration. Two examples of OPEN colaboration: I have been victim of, found and revealed: 1. the assumption that char "@" (and perhaps other chars) are not part of the ISP login 2 parameters: userID and Userpassword strings; (while apparently 'conventional) is not per RFC. Consequently although many/most users can connect, some will fail with the existing n-o code - when eg. char "@" is in the userID or Userpassword string(s). 2. the assumption that the number of emails 'available' will always be given when 'getting into' pop3 server, without asking (AFAIR it needs the "STAT" command), was built into TextMail.Mod. Again this apparently usually worked, but is not per RFC. --- ------ --- In both of these examples, the solution is trivial - ie. at a lower level. What needs to be OPEN is the explanation of the fundamental cause of the problem, not just a specific/arbitrary solution. OPEN colaboration discusses the underlying principles; not a "try to push button 43" solution, as a commercial supplier would give a client. ================== > Hopefully a nice new update of PPP.Tool can appear. * Yes, but let's seek a frame work (methodology) where a continual process of improvement is possible. * I've got a problem with PPP.Tool: it breaks the (apparently unwritten) rule that *.Tool is a list of mnemonics with minimum explanitory text. (I think also that *.Toot should be specified as viewable under the 'minimum' system: via Edit.Open and with UserTrack char width as per minimum/default - VGA, I guess). Its not clear what the usefull text of presently named PPP.Tool should be called; perhaps PPP.Text ? Re. files not named strictly according to their contents, imagine if we started getting source file called SrcFile.Dog..etc ! The way that *.Obj and *.Sym is 'frozen' by the system, should apply to the naming of other files, as far is possible. This is consistent with strict typing. The justification of removing the freedom to choose is: remove descision making from the trivial level to avoid repeatly deciding the same answer/question. Rather free up the mind for higher tasks by automating the trivialities. Remove the 'art' as much as possible. Presumably CVS helps enforce the discipline of working as much as possible according to pre-determined rules ? BTW as far as possible I avoid naming files: <string1>.<string2>, since this is the syntax for <module>.<exportedCommand>, and executing unintended commands is common. * I'd like to see (the renamed) PPP.Tool forming the basis of a collaborative effort to getting more S3 users able to access internet. > es> There are means for tracing the stuff. But the main > point I guess is your familiarity with the protocol so > you are able to find the point where there is a problem. Yes. Hopefully by refining the existing text, a sufficiently simple yet full tutor/basis-for-design-and-maintenance text can be evolved ? Hopefully Peter E. can pass on his 'beginner's view' so far. I'll try to understand it and add some thing and pass it back. Perhaps after several iterations, finally vetted by Andre, an improved product will emerge ? > Yes, the RFCs are somewhat readable =8~)) although > a reference at the level of the O'Reilly & Associates > books would certainly help. For example, how do the > Internet layers, LCP, IPCP, correspond to the ISO-OSI > network model? The RFCs assume knowledge of > abstract basics which not all novices possess. I've collected some good tutors under linux (which I consider THE reference) re. networking. If this project reaches critical mass, the material at the level of O'Reilly & Associates is available. And for us heavy n-o users, on line is better than any paper book. But I have serious gaps in my n-o knowledge and find no documentation re. the following:-- > PPPMain.InstPPP does > > Texts.OpenScanner(S, Oberon.Par.text, Oberon.Par.pos); > > reads the parameters for the command from this line > in Oberon.Text, > > Device0 = { "PPPMain.InstPPP", "COM1 \silent"} > > and then uses InInt(i) to read an integer, 4. > .... > 1. Where does InInt read 4 into i from? "4" is not a > parameter of "PPPMain.InstPPP" in Oberon.Text. ?? I can't see how/why the Texts.OpenScanner(S, 'looks' at Oberon.Text ! Presumably some other module sets 'global' S via Oberon.OpenScanner ? So I tried to eg. see which number line is being scanned, for what ever text is being scanned, via the following trace addition:- PROCEDURE InInt(VAR n:INTEGER); BEGIN Out.Char("#"); Out.Int(S.line, 6); WHILE (S.class = Texts.Char) & (S.c = 0DX) DO Texts.Scan(S) END; ... Which gives: TRAP -14 NIL reference ( 00000CBCH ) (PC Native 11.10.2001) PPPMain.StartInst PC = 627 S = 00000014H ao = 00000038H papname = "2nm4nx6x@za" pappasswd = "<my password>" provider = "PPP" Oberon.Call PC = 4854 <--- extra layer of complication Mod = 00360480H P = PPPMain.StartInst PC = 228 i = 8 j = 17 name = "StartInst" <--- extra layer of complication new = FALSE par = 00291400H res = 1 TextFrames.CallCmd PC = 12011 ... ??!! It seems that the Oberon.Call needs to be analysed, which perhaps leads into 'installation' and 'tasks' which I suspect are not documented. Questions: 1. is there documentation re. "installing" ? 2. surely PPP*Mod can't be analysed without indepth knowledge of 'task handling' ? 3. What about real time aspects of PPP ? > es> Another point is that I would like to collect information > on problems with PPP on Oberon somewhere. I don't have > the urge to take every article concerning PPP from > the mailing list and put it somewhere else. > > A by-product of the study of PPP is a collection of > troubleshooting tips, notes, suggestions and small > modifications to the PPP*.Mods. Edgar has first > refusal on this material and my ego imagines some > of it included in a future release. Otherwise and, if > Edgar doesn't object, it could go on my server for > public access. Sounds good ! -- Chris Glur.

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Re: [Oberon] PPP
by Edgar＠EdgarSchwarz.de 01 Jan '03

01 Jan '03

Hi Peter, first I will admit that PPPMain.InstPPP is sort of a hack. I did put a lot of the original stuff I got just in comments to keep it at hand if perhaps needed it in the future. "Peter Easthope" <peter_easthope(a)gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca> wrote: > Folk, > Here are a few questions. > PPPMain.InstPPP does > Texts.OpenScanner(S, Oberon.Par.text, Oberon.Par.pos); > reads the parameters for the command from this line > in Oberon.Text, > Device0 = { "PPPMain.InstPPP", "COM1 \silent"} > and then uses InInt(i) to read an integer, 4. There are these > two lines of code. > > (*MRUWant*)InInt(i); INCL(wo.O, NegMRU); wo.MRU:=1500; > IF HDLC.debug THEN Debug.String("MRUWant "); Debug Copy/Paste problem. Doesn't make sense really :-( You can see that I copied these lines from below. Doesn't hurt as it is but I changed it now to: (*MRUWant*) INCL(wo.O, NegMRU); wo.MRU:=1500; IF HDLC.debug THEN Debug.String("MRUWant "); Debug.Int(wo.MRU, 5) END; So it's less confusing. > Hopefully a nice new update of PPP.Tool can appear. I'm thinking of where to put it. Because I don't think it's necessary at the moment to send an update to ETH just for documentation. > es> Another point is that I would like to collect information > on problems with PPP on Oberon somewhere. I don't have > the urge to take every article concerning PPP from > the mailing list and put it somewhere else. > > A by-product of the study of PPP is a collection of > troubleshooting tips, notes, suggestions and small > modifications to the PPP*.Mods. Edgar has first > refusal on this material and my ego imagines some > of it included in a future release. No problem with that. You can send me your stuff and I can put it on my site as a version under development before sending it to ETH eventually. Cheers, Edgar -- edgar(a)edgarschwarz.de "http://www.edgarschwarz.de" "http://www.edgar-schwarz.de/foren/oberon" Running Active Oberon Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

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