January 2005 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Re: functional languages in Oberon
by Patrick.Hunziker＠unibas.ch 14 Jan '05

14 Jan '05

= Soren Renner wrote: = 1. I do admit that functional languages have some claim here as well, especially = Ocaml. It is just that I would prefer it to run on top of Oberon. There is a functional language available in Oberon: - Scheme.Mod implements an interpreter for the Scheme language (is in the Gfx package) There are some examples about how to use it, hidden in the Gfx documentation. - Vinci.Mod utilizes Scheme.Mod for graphical purposes as an example. Greetings Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

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The Mouse with the Blue Guitar
by Soren Renner 14 Jan '05

14 Jan '05

If I want to catch the middle mouse wheel events in Bluebottle, how do I do it? I am sure I can figure it out, but I am asking first before looking. sr

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Kingston USB memory
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 11 Jan '05

11 Jan '05

Campus media sales here offer Kingston USB memory. Has anyone found difficulty in mounting or booting from a Kingston Data Traveller II Plus 256 MB? The spec. sheet says it reads up to 19 MB/s and writes up to 13 MB/s. Thanks, Peter E. http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Re: %XX/W3C-encoding not applicable to ISP login
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 09 Jan '05

09 Jan '05

John M. Drake wrote:- > One more time, you can escape the string > for "NetSystem.SetUser" then include a > command to unescape it INSIDE the > NetSystem.SetUser procedure. > So it is/was clear to you what my misunderstanding was ? Right from the beginning I hacked:- foo@bar ... Do(char) to foo$bar ... IF char="$" THEN do("@") ELSE Do(char) But I never though of this as 'escaping/encoding the "@"; although effectively that's what it does. > > Then it > doesn't matter what special charecter > your goofy ISP throws in your userID. Except "%" > Also it doesn't matter whether or not > your ISP unescapes your code, because > NetSystem will have already done > it. No ! The ISP doesn't even see "%40". So the very concept of 'escaping' [outside of the n-o client] is inapplicable. The 'translation/disguise' is only internal to n-o. The whole mention of 'escaping' is inappropriate and misleading. > You've got the source code. The > fix you needed was posted over 2 years > ago. If you want to argue about it > you'll have to do that by yourself. Thanks, it's a bit more complicated: Ver-2001 was patched 'from the beginning'. Now I need to somethimes email from a portable machine, and I don't want to repartition my note-book. So I want to use my DOSBased V2.3.6. n-o, which has a different syntax to Ver-2001 re. ppp arguments. Your mention of "NetSystem.SetUser" helped me go directly to my previous patch, and applying it to V2.3.2 [which source I have] which enabled login for DOSBased V2.3.6. NewsArticles fetch tested OK. Unfortunately there's still a 'wrong password' error when I try to : TextMail.Directory I don't intend to do a research project, each time I change my ISP-userID, and I'm reminded/confirmed that I don't want to open Blue-bottle as another can of worms. == Chris Glur.

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Re: [Oberon] Re. Blackbox open source available
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

Chris, cg> Glancing through BlueBottle notes it seems that it aims to ape M$. My first guess would be that they are trying to give BB a fighting chance against the popular systems. Why not? cg> I just can't understand it !! Certainly many users preferred tiled viewers to arbitrary viewers. This to the extent of using Gadgets within the tiled interface rather than Gadgets alone. More than one interface can be available in an OS. Currently there is an Oberon within BB and we can hope that, after all the Oberon capabilities are implemented in BB, the best of the Oberon interface remains as an option. Regards, Peter E. Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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%XX/W3C-encoding not applicable to ISP login
by easlab＠absamail.co.za 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

I hope this finally puts this argument to rest. You can read the full thread on : Newsgroups: comp.protocols.ppp,comp.os.linux.networking Subject: Re: dail-up ISP login can't do W3C encoding. I've included here, what I consider as the essentail comments of THE MAN who wrote the 'ppp-book' : -- James Carlson, IP Systems Group <james.d.carlson(a)sun.com> Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.234W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.497N Fax +1 781 442 1677 --------- James Carlson wrote: > > > - The existence of any particular encoding ability is merely a > > > feature of the software implementation. I can't say I've *ever* > > > heard of %XX encoding being used here (or &foo; for that matter), > > > but it's certainly not impossible. > > Chris Glur wrote: > > BTW where in the 'chain' is %XX encoding implemented ? TCP ? > > It's an application convention. It's not related to TCP or PPP. OK that clears up a BIG misconception of mine, you say: all the way through the internet the "%40" passes as these '3 chars', and the application can [or not] translate it to "@". Relating this to my specific problem, I don't see any reason why the ISP login process should translate "%40" to "@". Do you ? > > > - Availability or non-availability of the encoding mechanism is a > > > non-issue. If the ISP requires it for some reason, and the PPP > > > implementation you're using cannot do it automatically, then > > > you'll need to type "user%40realm.net" into that box or > > > configuration file instead of "user(a)realm.net". Otherwise, you'll > > > just need to find a new ISP. > > > > Then I'm mistaken: my whole argument has been that the ISP won't > > translate '%40' to '@' before login/password. I've hacked the 'dialler' > > script to see "user$realm.net" and send "user%40realm.net" to the ISP. > > My notebook has [to] have a different version of the software and I > > don't want to have to analyse and patch that too. > > If translate "%40" -> "@" worked that would be a quick solution; > > but on the dialer which was hacked to work, testing by using "%61" > > in place of "a" fails to login. I'm really confused ! > > I still don't understand why you'd want to do any of that. Did the > ISP insist that this is how they want to see user names? Or are you > trying to work around some local bug that prevents the use of the > ISP-required "@" sign? 1. The ISP allocated me the userID with an embedded "@" char. 2. The dialer assumes no userID will contain a "@" char. and uses "@" as the deliniter of the userID. 3. The OS-users tell me that decoding to "%40" will solve my problem. 4. It doesn't solve the problem, apparently because the ISP login process has no reason to implement %xx decoding. --snip -- > > The only way I could still agree with your argument [and the oberon > > users'] is if the ISP operates in 'dual mode': > > > > IF the client 'starts talking ppp' > > THEN the ISP replies with ppp; > > ELSEIF the client 'starts talking <CR> ' > > THEN the ISP replies with 'text-mode' until UserName & Password =OK; > > afterwhich:switch to ppp & Tx "Entering PPP mode". > > That's precisely what a fair number of commercial dial-up servers did > in the early 90s. The "ELSEIF" part was commonly dropped later to > save on service calls. The expensive part of running any sort of > public-facing business (like an ISP) is dealing with calls from > confused users. Eliminating text-mode dial-up helps eliminate those > calls, as Windows supports plain old PPP right out of the box. > > Not all ISPs are that clueful, so it's hard to say exactly what you > (or any other user) might have to deal with. > > > The question still remains: > > would you expect a 'normal' [designed for Winxx consumer market] > > ISP to decode "%40" to "@" as part of the UserId ? > > No, I wouldn't expect that at all. It sounds like a very strange > expectation indeed. > > It'd be possible, but highly improbable. There seems to be no reason > at all to do this -- other than the apparent fact that you have a > broken dialer. ISPs don't really care whether your non-Windows dialer > is broken. :-/ --------- end of extract. Using old DOS BBS software I was able to manually login but not use the "%40" substitute for the "@" in my ISP-allocated ID. AFTER login the ISP expected ppp-mode. This 'text-mode' log-in happened apparently because the ISP didn't detect 'ppp-mode'. OTOH when I logged in via linux, the communication was 'in-ppp' before the UserID [containing the "@"] was given. Apparently this is the normal mode -- as per 'Windowsxx'. In both cases the login routines did not decode "%40" to "@". And James Carlson sees no reason why they should. Nor do I. == Chris Glur.

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Re (3): [Oberon] NIC in BB
by shark＠gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Doug, re: ambiguity of BB abbreviation. Hadn't thought of that. From now on I could use AOS or Aos to abbreviate BlueBottle and BB for Black Box. Thomas, tf> If your computer can run VMWare or Qemu ... No but late last week I installed crazy. With a decent network connection it is easy enough. Nice release! Thanks! tf> You can for example use AosPing.Ping 129.132.134.50 ~ to Ping the bluebottle server without DNS lookup. Or you can use the graphical FTP Browser ( WMFTPClient.Open ~). They both work. Thanks. The display panning ability offers convenient access to AosOberon. Ie., start Aos, pan right (left, up ...), bring the main menu, start Oberon, unpan, return the menu. Whenever Oberon is needed just pan to it with one click. (Chris G.: this works quite well. You gain by installing Aos and still have Oberon a click away.) Can anyone tell me how to do this startup in AosConfig.XML. The example, AosDisplayWM.Install Oberon 900x700;System.Init Oberon is on the home screen whereas I am aiming for an adjacent screen. Thanks, Peter Desktops.OpenDoc http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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Blackbox open source available
by Douglas G. Danforth 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

Folks, I like the Blackbox/Component Pascal interface. The source code has now been released. I'd be interested in hearing comments about porting that code to the Native Oberon environment. That is, call those functions of native that replace MS Windows calls and still retain the look and feel of Blackbox while running on Native and hence extend the platforms on which Blackbox will run. -Doug Danforth

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Re: [Oberon] Support for Realtek RTL-8139 with Native Oberon
by frey＠inf.ethz.ch 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

> I'm running Native Oberon on a Pentium-II class machine. > How can a network card such as, Realtek RTL-8139 be > configured in Native Oberon ? PCITools.Scan was able to > detect this card as a PCI device. The driver is currently only available for the new Bluebottle OS. http://bluebottle.ethz.ch It should not be too difficult to make a Native Oberon driver out of the Bluebottle OS driver. But... I have no time to do this myself. --Thomas Frey

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Re: [Oberon] Blackbox open source available
by Bill Northcott 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

I have looked there several times, but there is no sign of source code only Windows executables. Bill Northcott "Douglas G. Danforth" wrote > Ah yes, one should always list the URL. So here it is > > http://www.oberon.ch/blackbox.html > > Scroll down to the bottom of the page for downloading the software. > > -Doug Danforth > > Bill Northcott wrote: >> On 31/12/2004, at 10:00 PM, "Douglas G. Danforth" >> <danforth(a)greenwoodfarm.com> wrote >> >>> I like the Blackbox/Component Pascal interface. The source code has >>> now >>> been released. >> >> >> Where? I have had a good hunt around various Oberon sites and can see >> no sign of it. >> >> Do you have a URL? >> >> Bill Northcott

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