December 2012 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Oberon compiler using C as an intermediate language
by Chris Burrows 21 Dec '12

21 Dec '12

> -----Original Message----- > From: Treutwein Bernhard [mailto:Bernhard.Treutwein@Verwaltung.Uni- > Muenchen.DE] > Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2012 11:44 PM > To: 'ETH Oberon and related systems' > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Current Oberon System > > It compiles Oberon-2 to C (in a difficult form) and from there to object > code. When I first heard the notion of writing an Oberon compiler to generate C it did sound like a good way to leverage off all the platforms that C is available. Unfortunately, the end result is doomed to inherit the quirky and inconsistent behaviour you can expect when develop software in C for different platforms. Where this approach could be very useful would be as a temporary intermediate step when porting an Oberon compiler written in Oberon to a new target. That is if you wanted to develop the compiler on the target itself instead of writing a cross-compiler. Wirth's compilers don't even generate assembler code instructions to pass onto an assembler. That extra step is thought to be unnecessary and inefficient. His compilers generate machine code instructions directly. That is why the Oberon compiler is so incredibly fast. One day I'll put a timestamp on the compiler log output - it compiles so fast that often I'm not sure that I have actually clicked on the compile button! Regards, Chris -- Chris Burrows Astrobe: Oberon for Coretex-M3 (v4.3 Nov 2012) http://www.astrobe.com

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 18
by Guenter Dotzel 21 Dec '12

21 Dec '12

Soren Renner even included Crelier's dissertation (fine grained symbol files aka fingerprinting aka object model): http://code.google.com/p/ethz-oberon-repository-mirror/source/browse/trunk/… ) N. Wirth happily accepted Crelier's work and made positive comments about but I guess her would himself never include such a feature in his own compiler. fingerprinting is very useful, but a little more complex than necessary. does he also support Josef Templ's metaprogramming? here are the references to both dissertations mentioned: http://modulaware.com/mwofea.htm *** > Who cares to what it compiles on a modern 0cto core 3 GHz computer? As > long as it stomps out executables. I care! 3GHz we had 10 years ago - and how can more than one core help in most cases?

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 18
by Guenter Dotzel 21 Dec '12

21 Dec '12

what about the retargetable Oberon compiler by Soren Renner? http://code.google.com/p/ethz-oberon-repository-mirror/source/browse/trunk/… looks like Oberon but seen the site of the modules, it doesn't look Wirthian.

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Re (2): Re (2): Current Oberon System
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 20 Dec '12

20 Dec '12

Aubrey and others, From: <Aubrey.McIntosh(a)Alumni.UTexas.Net> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:36:25 -0600 > Are you thinking about laying out a board? That would be unrealistic, for me at least. Just wonder whether any FeRAM can easily replace DRAM on a system board. Or how different are circuitries to support FeRAM and to support DRAM? Is there such a thing as a FeRAM drop-in replacement for DRAM? Thanks, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +13606390202 Bcc: peasthope at shaw.ca http://carnot.yi.org/ "http://members.shaw.ca/peasthope/index.html#Itinerary "

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A2 on VirtualBox
by Aubrey.McIntosh＠Alumni.UTexas.Net 20 Dec '12

20 Dec '12

I have installed a version of A2 from an old iso image onto VirtualBox. The file dates on this image are Feb 19, 2009. This image boots in the VirtualBox environment, and installs. There is an ASSERT that fails in the AM79C970 NIC driver. When I defeat that ASSERT, the IPv4 network operates. The IPv6 network installs addresses, and other ipv6 machines on the same local link show the A2 machine as a neighbor, so some correct packets are leaving the A2 box, but I don't make any progress beyond that point. I am able to Ping.Ping the A2 box on itself by 2 different v6 addresses. test1f.link.vima.austin.tx.us does respond (local address) a2.vima.austin.tx.us does respond (global address) localhost.vima.austin.tx.us fails to respond (::1) I thought a current version would be a nice thing to install before I investigated further. I have downloaded the svn 4281 image from the Google mirror. This image appears to be starting up, but the resulting screen is totally black. I have not set up any monitoring on the serial port. I wonder if anyone has used the 4281 image in virtualBox. I wonder if anyone has anything like a packet sniffer in A2 so that I can look a little deeper into the IPv6 situation. -- Aubrey McIntosh, Ph.D. 211 E. 5th St. Morris MN 56267 (512)-348-7401

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Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems.
by Les May 19 Dec '12

19 Dec '12

As is apparent from the documentation Safe-C is not a legacy system any more than Oberon is a legacy system of Modula 2 or Pascal. C programs will not compile with it just as an Oberon program will not compile with a Pascal compiler. A C programmer would notice significant similarities just as a Pascal programmer would if he/she looked at an Oberon program, but that is all. Wirth did not design Oberon from 'first principles'. He had 25 years of experience to fall back on including designing Pascal, Modula and Modula 2, plus exposure to the Cedar/Mesa system and to Algol68. He felt he knew what was desirable in a language and what was problematic. The designer of Safe-C has tried to do just the same. The virtue of simplicity is an opinion not an axiom. Wirth is frequently quoted as repeating a saying attributed to Albert Einstein, 'make things as simple as possible but not simpler'. But he struggled to put this into practice e.g. the number of loop constructs to be included, and the need or otherwise for cardinals and for different sizes of integer. In making the construction of the compiler as simple as possible by using upper case keywords only he imposed an additional 'cognitive load' on users because text written in upper case is more difficult to comprehend (at least by me) and entering it is much more error prone due to constant toggling of the shift key/capitals key. His simplicity is my complexity. Interestingly Zonnon the successor to Oberon allows lower case keywords. Les May

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Help in using an Oberon systems.
by Srinivas Nayak 17 Dec '12

17 Dec '12

Dear All, I am a Linux user. I am new to Oberon systems. I tried running one Oberon system in Virtual Box, though slow, it started. Now the big question is, I am hopeless in the UI. I found from net that, there used to be a book detailing user manual. Now it is not available. How to know how to use this OS (at least for me like novice)? Do any body have a e copy of that material, or any sources of similar user manual saying how to use this OS? I am not able to find the root directory or file system. How do we run applications? Or shall it be better to start with an Oberon system that has simpler interface? Please guide me the best way to learn using this OS. With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Ulm oberon download
by Jan Verhoeven 17 Dec '12

17 Dec '12

Just tried to download the ULM compiler. Could not connect by browser. So I switched to ncftp. After many an attempt I succeeded in starting a download. But the download speed got down at 1% per second. ETA went up at 1% per second. ULM is a nono. There are just no Oberon compilers. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Jan Verhoeven http://www.verhoeven272.nl

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Oberon Companion was: Help in using an Oberon systems.
by Treutwein Bernhard 17 Dec '12

17 Dec '12

Chris Glur wrote: > == I forgot to point out that <Companion book> COMES with the system. Yes, absolutely correct, it is contained in the Docu.zip located at ftp://ftp.ethoberon.ethz.ch/ETHOberon/Native/Update/Alpha I fired up my old Native Oberon Alpha installation on an orphaned HP Vectra (Pentium 1/133). There is a Book.Tool, which I successfully opened with a middle mouse click on Desktops.OpenDoc Book.Tool (after typing Book.Tool after the Desktops.OpenDoc, which was in my Sytem.Tool. I really don't remember if/what I already configured differently from the installation default System.Tool). Book.Tool is an active hyperlinked text, which opens the different chapters by clicking on the corresponding titles. I know this is awful for someone who is still downhill on the steep learning curve of the Oberon System. It is possible to open these files in BlackBox, but the figures and images are missing ... Regards -- Bernhard

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 14
by Søren Renner 17 Dec '12

17 Dec '12

Active Oberon can use multiple CPU cores; "CPO" runs in a single thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8IQPvctswk On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 11:00 AM, <oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote: > What does Active Oberon do for your applications that CPO (Couch Potato > Oberon) doesn't? >

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