December 2012 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Report on compiling all Linz V4 Sources on Windows
by Aubrey.McIntosh＠Alumni.UTexas.Net 17 Dec '12

17 Dec '12

I have responded to the recent discussion about the various Oberon versions by revisiting the Linz distribution. This is the one that I used as my daily workhorse for many years. The current status of the archive is not newbie friendly in a few respects, as I report below. I downloaded ftp://ftp.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at/pub/Oberon/Windows/win95-NT/System .EXE and unpacked it in a Ubuntu Precise Pangolin (12.04) environment with the Wine emulator. This environment is running on the Oracle VirtualBox, which in turn is hosted on a Dell Optiplex 620 running Windows XP. All patches for all systems were in place yesterday. The system boots and operates normally in all respects and is very responsive, other than some occasional delay in loading Wine. This delay may be explained by the system load in the XP environment outside the VirtualBox. (I finally remembered that the F1 key produces the star-marker in a viewer; I had to execute the ctrlC.exe program a time or two.) I attempted to compile all the sources. I produced the seed list by the command System.Directory *.Mod \a 1. The sources use version elements. The setting of the elements was a mixture of Linux, PowerMac, and Window environments. I do not know of a standard way to inspect the settings other than opening each file and checking each element. I wrote a program that dumps the version names for each Beg VersionElems and marks the current name, ran this on the entire list of about 251 files, and set all the files to a setting that is compatible with Windows (NT 5.1) as reported in the System.Log 1. VersionElems.Set goodversion is my friend 2. I sorted the files into a correct compiling order using my program AlmGather. AlmGather announced that it cannot find the following sources: 1. Dialogs.Mod 2. DialogFrames.Mod 3. DialogStaticTexts.Mod 4. DialogCheckBoxes.Mod 3. At present, there are 2 modules with compile time errors. 1. There is an unresolved compile time error in ContainerElems.Mod that I did not examine extensively. 2. PopupEditor relies on Dialogs 4. I made a local change to VersionElems.Mod in order to export the current version name and maxversions. I compiled the entire suite of sources after that change. Unexpectedly, there are a few new .Sym files in the $User directory after the compilation finished. 1. MathL.Sym 2. MultiButtonElems.Sym 3. PFBasic.Sym 4. PanelFrames.Sym 5. I started the system using ./oberon.exe at the Ubuntu command prompt, using the Oberon.Hex and Oberon.Ini files as distributed. The system started and performed a few tests correctly. In particular, the Track & Viewer system appeared normal, the mouse editing and popup buttons worked ok, and I compiled all the sources a second time. With the changes made to the VersionElems, much of the source appears to be there. 6. The program oberon.c is not in the System.EXE archive. It is a deeper problem to produce oberon.exe and Oberon.Hex, and I did not make any attempt to do so this weekend. 7. I used the FTP.Tool and logged into ftp.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at from within the Oberon environment. Woo Hoo !! It appears that there is a top level directory named Dialogs. This may fix item 2 above. 8. I can't unload modules. I thought there was either System.Unload or Modules.Unload. I can use MM+ML when executing a command, but that only unloads the one module. I would appreciate a memory jog for the correct command name. I still think the system is very powerful. Despite the fact that it is nearly 25 years old, it gives the impression of being new and advanced. All the mouse interclicks that were so very pesky to learn, with many a misadventure of deleting text when I was trying to copy looks, appear to be completely fluent after some years of disuse. I find this impressive. While I did copy and paste a lot, and the result is not pretty, I did knock out a module to list all the VersionElement names in just a few hours. Most of that time was spent remembering how important Texts.OpenWriter(writer) is. -- Aubrey McIntosh, Ph.D. 211 E. 5th St. Morris MN 56267 (512)-348-7401

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 11
by Søren Renner 16 Dec '12

16 Dec '12

> > The thing about Gadgets (and Aos) is that it feels like an attempt to build > yet another GUI that's essentially the same as Windows and the rest, which > is not very interesting. The original Oberon concept was very different... I sort of agree with that -- but the GUI is not the reason I use AOS. Active Oberon is the reason. On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 11:00 AM, <oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote: > Send Oberon mailing list submissions to > oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oberon-owner(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Help in using an Oberon systems. (Duke Normandin) > 2. Re: Help in using an Oberon systems. (Felix Friedrich) > 3. Re: Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 8 (Jack Johnson) > 4. Re: Help in using an Oberon systems. (Nemo) > 5. Re: Help in using an Oberon systems. (Jan Verhoeven) > 6. Re: Help in using an Oberon systems. (Jan Verhoeven) > 7. Re: Help in using an Oberon systems. (Jan Verhoeven) > 8. Re: Help in using an Oberon systems. (Bob Walkden) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:58:44 -0700 > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems. > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Message-ID: <20121213065844.231e9739@lubuntu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:20:52 -0900 > Jack Johnson <knapjack(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I would strongly suggest that you change your mind and walk away > > > from Oberon!! It is a complete waste of time, IMHO. > > > > > > > Grow up, Duke. IMHO. > > Fuck off, Jack!! and that's NOT an opinion!! > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:50:49 +0100 > From: Felix Friedrich <felix.friedrich(a)inf.ethz.ch> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems. > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <50C9F959.1020603(a)inf.ethz.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Duke Normandin has been removed from the Oberon mail list. > I will not let him in again because of his offensive language. > > Felix Friedrich, > Moderator of Oberon Mail List. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 09:25:34 -0900 > From: Jack Johnson <knapjack(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 8 > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: > < > CAJd0wvAFLFsOKJaWYTc2WaLWP2ntQhPdR1kgMmaB0hmdC0KfZQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Guenter Dotzel <gd(a)modulaware.com> wrote: > > Good that you talk about overhead, - in some countries there exists a > > Datensparsamkeitsgesetz, ;) - many participants - not only in > > this mailing list - don't care about netikette, i.e. they wildly quote. > > Still quoting, but changed to plain text. :) > > You know, there's a service called loband designed for people trying > to get access over bandwidth-restricted connections: > http://www.loband.org/loband/ > > I hadn't thought about using loband to streamline sites for more > lightweight browsers like Oberon's. I'll have to give it a try. > > -Jack > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:31:09 -0500 > From: Nemo <cym224(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems. > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: > <CAJfiPzzUtcYCSPM03YbxxMNemvOLAHK7hGA= > niYkVHK9_nmpvg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 12 December 2012 15:14, Bob Walkden <bob(a)web-options.com> wrote (in > part): > > The book which tells you about the basic Oberon system and how to use it > is > > "The Oberon System: User Guide and Programmer's Manual " by Martin > Reiser. > > This is what I used when I first started, at about the time the book was > > published. > > > > Programming is described in "Programming in Oberon: Steps Beyond Pascal > and > > Modula" by Reiser and Niklaus Wirth, who designed and wrote the system > with > > Prof. Gutknecht. > > Has anyone read "Oberon Companion: A Guide to Using and Programming > Oberon System 3" by Fisher and Marais? (I do not have a copy and am > curious.) > > As an aside, this may not help the original poster but I note that the > Solaris Sparc version of Oberon System 3 runs very nicely on current > Sparc boxes. I can even run it on my Mac over SSH using a > three-button mouse. > > N. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:47:24 +0100 > From: Jan Verhoeven <jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems. > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <201212131947.24335.jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Wednesday 12 December 2012 21:34:15 Aubrey.McIntosh(a)alumni.utexas.net > wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > wrote: > > > Invest your time with something like: > > > > > > https://www.haiku-os.org/ > > > > > > There, your skills will be put to good use on an active > > > and Open Source Project!! > > > > In what sense is Oberon not open source? > > The source for Oberon0 is very hard to get.... I never laid my hands on > it. There is the Oberon0 that copmes with "Compiler Construction" but > it is different from the Oberon0 that was used for the Oberon0 boot > disk of Native Oberon. > AFAIK it is also not in Project Oberon, For the rest, Oberon may have > been the very first open source OS on earth. Fully documented open > source. > Not 'free, as in free beer' since you had to buy the books. But that > kind of 'freedom' is a result of the downsides of internet. > > -- > Met vriendelijke groeten, > > Jan Verhoeven > http://www.verhoeven272.nl > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:55:07 +0100 > From: Jan Verhoeven <jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems. > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <201212131955.07064.jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Thursday 13 December 2012 19:31:09 Nemo wrote: > > Has anyone read "Oberon Companion: A Guide to Using and Programming > > Oberon System 3" by Fisher and Marais? (I do not have a copy and am > > curious.) > > Yes, my friend Les May has. Not sure if he is still on this list though. > The book is stll for sale here and there. > > -- > Met vriendelijke groeten, > > Jan Verhoeven > http://www.verhoeven272.nl > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 20:34:53 +0100 > From: Jan Verhoeven <jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems. > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <201212132034.53476.jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Thursday 13 December 2012 19:31:09 Nemo wrote: > > Has anyone read "Oberon Companion: A Guide to Using and Programming > > Oberon System 3" by Fisher and Marais? (I do not have a copy and am > > curious.) > > Yes, my friend Les May has. Not sure if he is still on this list though. > The book is stll for sale here and there. > > Here is a small 'review' by Les: > > http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/Oberon/TheBook.html > > -- > Met vriendelijke groeten, > > Jan Verhoeven > http://www.verhoeven272.nl > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:26:25 -0000 > From: "Bob Walkden" <bob(a)web-options.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Help in using an Oberon systems. > To: "'ETH Oberon and related systems'" <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <018701cdd989$461aa270$d24fe750$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > From: Nemo [mailto:cym224@gmail.com] > > > > On 12 December 2012 15:14, Bob Walkden <bob(a)web-options.com> wrote (in > > part): > > > The book which tells you about the basic Oberon system and how to use > > > it is "The Oberon System: User Guide and Programmer's Manual " by > > Martin Reiser. > > > This is what I used when I first started, at about the time the book > > > was published. > > > > > > Programming is described in "Programming in Oberon: Steps Beyond > > > Pascal and Modula" by Reiser and Niklaus Wirth, who designed and > > wrote > > > the system with Prof. Gutknecht. > > > > Has anyone read "Oberon Companion: A Guide to Using and Programming > > Oberon System 3" by Fisher and Marais? (I do not have a copy and am > > curious.) > > > > Yes, I have a copy of it, and have read most of it I think, and made use of > much of it, but not in a professional capacity. I use the Wirthian stuff to > help keep me sane, to refresh my perspective, and to help keep things > simple. Professionally I have always worked in commercial IT so have always > used mainstream products, except for a brief interlude in the early 90s > when > I wrote a large-ish system in Modula-2. > > The thing about Gadgets (and Aos) is that it feels like an attempt to build > yet another GUI that's essentially the same as Windows and the rest, which > is not very interesting. The original Oberon concept was very different, > and > still stands apart from everything I've used with the possible exception of > Smalltalk. > > B > > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > End of Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 11 > *************************************** >

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Re (2): Help in using an Oberon systems.
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 14 Dec '12

14 Dec '12

Srinivas, > 2. Which Oberon system isup-to-date with today's world? None. The last release of PC Native from ETH was the Alpha dated 2003-01-05. I use it with bug fixes documented here. Desktops.OpenDoc http://142.103.107.138/OberonPage.html I keep Linux and Oberon on separate machines; can't advise on a Linux based Oberon. Regards, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +13606390202 Bcc: peasthope at shaw.ca http://carnot.yi.org/ "http://members.shaw.ca/peasthope/index.html#Itinerary "

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon0 and Kernel availability
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 14 Dec '12

14 Dec '12

From: Chris Burrows <chris(a)cfbsoftware.com> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 22:27:59 +1030 > The source of the kernel of Standalone Native Oberon is not available but > the rest is there. The following are extracts from the readme file of ETH > Native Oberon System 3 Release 2.3.6 (Stand-alone): Release 2.3.6 was 1999-05-13. In Alpha, dated 2003-01-05, which is running here, these are the first 12 lines of SYS:Native.Tool as plain text. Notice Kernel.Mod on the 12th lne. To see colors and links, open SYS:Native.Tool on your system. ==== ETH Oberon / PC Native Build Tool ---------------------------- Package: [ System | Gadgets | Apps | Documentation | Build | Lab | Eamon | Tutorials | Pr3Fonts | Pr6Fonts ] Index: [ Generate | Build | Upload | Compiler | Backup | Web | Link kernel ] -- Generate Release.Tool -- Release.Build COMPILER "Compiler.Compile \s.Obj" OBJ "Obj" PRIVATEARC "SourceP.zip" PREFIX "~" TOOL "Release.Tool" # Basic Oberon System 3. Editing/Compiling Oberon code and texts. Fits on installation diskette. PACKAGE System ARCHIVE "System.zip" SOURCE "Source1.zip" Kernel.Mod Disks.Mod OFS.Mod OFSDiskVolumes.Mod OFSN2KFiles.Mod # Inner core ==== And here are the first 9 lines of SYS:Kernel.Mod. ==== (* ETH Oberon, Copyright 1990-2003 Computer Systems Institute, ETH Zurich, CH-8092 Zurich. Refer to the license.txt file provided with this distribution. *) MODULE Kernel; (** non-portable *) (* rc/ard/nm/jm/jdv/pjm/rml*) (** Module Kernel is responsible for memory allocation, garbage collection and other run-time support for the Oberon language, as well as interfacing to the underlying machine. Using features exported from module Kernel may result in an unportable module, as not all Oberon Kernels are the same. This module is of little importance to most Oberon programmers. *) ==== The kernel source was not released for 2.3.6 but was released for Alpha? In any case, Alpha is the preferred system and absence of the older kernel source shouldn't be detrimental. From: Jan Verhoeven <jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 19:47:24 +0100 > The source for Oberon0 is very hard to get ... In Alpha, creating a fresh Oberon0 diskette with support for CF is a simple exercise, thanks to instructions from Josef Sedlacek. Click here. Desktops.OpenDoc "http://142.103.107.138/OberonPage.html#Files" And here. Desktops.OpenDoc "http://142.103.107.138/OberonPage.html#ATADisks" And continue with more clicks therein. Analogous modifications can be developed to add support for other hardware to Oberon0. Any feedback concerning my notes is always welcome. Regards, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +13606390202 Bcc: peasthope at shaw.ca http://carnot.yi.org/ "http://members.shaw.ca/peasthope/index.html#Itinerary "

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Oberon0 and Kernel availability was: Help in using an Oberon systems.
by Treutwein Bernhard 14 Dec '12

14 Dec '12

> Chris Burrows chris at cfbsoftware.com wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jan Verhoeven [mailto:jan at verhoeven272.nl] > > Sent: Friday, 14 December 2012 5:17 AM [...] > > The source for Oberon0 is very hard to get.... I never laid my hands on > it. There is the Oberon0 that copmes with "Compiler Construction" but it > is different from the Oberon0 that was used for the Oberon0 boot disk of > Native Oberon. if my memory is not completely broken, Oberon0 files (that means the files which can be found on the installation floppy) are in the following archives, which were today available at the following address: ftp://ftp.ethoberon.ethz.ch/ETHOberon/Native/Update/Alpha/Build Kernel.Mod is in Source1.zip located in ftp://ftp.ethoberon.ethz.ch/ETHOberon/Native/Update/Alpha I've made a full contents listing and have put that there: ftp://ftp.lrz.de/transfer/BlueBottle-A2/NO-Alpha-contents.txt The latter may be wiped out by our central site without notice in some months. Regards -- Bernhard

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 8
by Guenter Dotzel 13 Dec '12

13 Dec '12

Good that you talk about overhead, - in some countries there exists a Datensparsamkeitsgesetz, ;) - many participants - not only in this mailing list - don't care about netikette, i.e. they wildly quote. world wild web! cheers, g.

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9
by Søren Renner 12 Dec '12

12 Dec '12

UnixAos boots instantly in any directory, too. It does and I do it. On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM, <oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote: > Send Oberon mailing list submissions to > oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oberon-owner(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A4 ? was: Re (2): Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2 (eas lab) > 2. Re: Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 8 (Guenter Dotzel) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:49:22 +0200 > From: eas lab <lab.eas(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] A4 ? was: Re (2): Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue > 2 > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: > < > CAN3-DLGujWZkZt7YbuYvfykxDUn2w8mghwUQY5oHg_aF6LZSYQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Who knows Clocks.ShowAlarms ? > > Jan Verhoeven wrote:- > > Linux Extended Oberon might be something but what IS it? > > Can we assume that readers of this forum, know what ETHO is? > New ETHO-like LEOs can be launched in 1 second, in any/multiple > X-console; and conveniently relative to THAT consol's PATH if needed. > > The following demo shows that/how it has the same look&feel as ETHO. > > Yes LEO is broken too, but I forgot to keep noticing that. > > And I was thinking about some commands of ETHO which wouldn't > make sense for LEO, so I tried: [this is a trace in LEO] > -> System.Watch == > heap size: 5398336 bytes > allocated: 3377872 > available: 2020464 > largest free block: 2147483647 > open file(s): 18 > > -> System.ShowTasks == > Oberon.GC safe 339398227 waiting 41 s > Clocks.AlarmTask safe 339357433 waiting 372 ms > > =?=> what's Clocks.AlarmTask ?? > ==> Let's list the Clocks commands > -> Watson.ShowDef Clocks. == ... > PROCEDURE ShowAlarms (enum: EnumAlarmHandler); > What's this? Can I set an alarm? Where/how will it 'sound'? > -> System.Directory Clocks.*\d == > /mnt/hdc6/home/oberon/obj/Clocks.Obj 12.11.2002 18:27:27 14551 > ==> So it's been in use for ten years! > And is still accessed from a partition which is seldom otherwise needed. > ie. "/mnt/hdc6/" > But there's no Clocks.Mod > So let's switch to LNO [you know what that is?] and see if the old:N-O > partition/s have got the source:Clocks.Mod , to see what it does. > > Switching to LNO, which runs nicely in non-X:console in a FrameBuffer, > like the old DOSbasedNative did, and saving the LNO search results to > /mnt/p3/usr/local/LNO-FB/X > which can then be accessed by LEO [both using ETHO format] we see: > > ==> Let's see what LNO knows about Clocks.* > System.Directory Clock*\d == > DST:Clocks.Obj 11.10.2001 20:18:02 14578 <-- vs:LEO 14551 > Almost identical size to LEO's. > > Watson.ShowDef Clock* == > Oberon.Text - Gadgets.Aliases not found > Oberon.Text - Gadgets.Documents not found > Oberon.Text - Gadgets.DocumentServices not found > Watson 1.7 / PS January 95 > no information about 'Clock' available > ==> Looks as if LNO is not setup for Watson? > ==> Lets mount the partition of *.Mod to see Clocks.Mod > <that needs a few steps> > -> System.Directory SrcModls:Cl* == null > > Now save the log of the LNO work, so that LEO can > read it and write it to a Linux format file to paste to gmail, > because my ISP won't smtp except for direct dial-in, > and gmail needs linux, because ETHO seems not to have https. > > Save to "/mnt/p3/usr/local/LNO-FB/X" > > That's the common file that I use to talk between: LNO<->LEO > NB. when I was installing LNO, I chose a bad PATHname, > with the "-" char, which is 'illegal' in an ETHO fileName > ------------ end of: "/mnt/p3/usr/local/LNO-FB/X" > > == Chris Glur. > PS. I hate this gmail. Let's hope it mails > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:48:37 +0100 > From: Guenter Dotzel <gd(a)modulaware.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 8 > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Message-ID: <50C86105.4060607(a)modulaware.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Good that you talk about overhead, - in some countries there exists a > Datensparsamkeitsgesetz, ;) - many participants - not only in > this mailing list - don't care about netikette, i.e. they wildly quote. > world wild web! > cheers, > g. > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > End of Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9 > ************************************** >

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Re: [Oberon] A4 ? was: Re (2): Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2
by peasthope＠shaw.ca 11 Dec '12

11 Dec '12

Bernhard, > I know it is a paper size in good old Germany (and some other countries) ... Just for sake of interest, I know of an engineering company which had adopted ISO 216 at least as early as the mid '90s. I suppose they had international operations and ISO standards were an obvious advantage for them. Regards, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +13606390202 Bcc: peasthope at shaw.ca http://carnot.yi.org/ "http://members.shaw.ca/peasthope/index.html#Itinerary "

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Ceres documents scanned
by Paul Reed 08 Dec '12

08 Dec '12

For those who are interested in the history of Oberon and the Ceres Workstation on which it was first used: Two documents which were not previously available digitally have recently been scanned and added to ETH's digitised collection at http://www.inf.ethz.ch/research/disstechreps/ Author: Beat Heeb Title: Design of the Processor-Board for the Ceres-2 Workstation Technical Reports 93, ETH Zürich, Institut fuer Informatik, 11 1988. Pages: 32 Language: EN month :11 year :1988 number :93 abstract : Ceres is a single user workstation based on the NS32032 microprocessor. The NS32532, a new, more powerful, but fully software compatible member of the NS32000 family made it possible to enhance the performance of the machine without much effort. Because of the modular structure of the Ceres, only the processor board had to be changed, while the rest of the hardware and all software (except device handlers) remained unchanged. This paper describes the differences between the new processor board and the old one and presents the result of some performance measurements. ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/publications/tech-reports/1xx/093.pdf and filename :th8431 entry :phd title :Development and Analysis of a Workstation Computer author :Johann Jakob Eberle institution : ETH Zürich address :Institut fuer Informatik type :PhD Thesis month :12 year :1987 number :8431 language :EN pages :113 keywords : abstract : The workstation Ceres is a stand-alone computer for a single user. The design is an example of a simple system architecture reflected by a careful implementation with minimal costs. Ceres is based on the 32-bit microprocessor NS32032, which is oriented to the use of high-level and modular languages. A key feature is the high-resolution bitmapped graphics display which is attractive for applications such as program development or document processing. The arbitrated memory bus and the modular system organization are open to future hardware extensions. This thesis documents the hardware development of the workstation Ceres. The design objectives of the raster graphics interface and of the bus structure are discussed in detail. Finally, processor-memory communication of two prototype versions is analysed, which differ only in the width of their data paths to memory. The raster graphics interface of Ceres contains an integral frame buffer memory, which is directly addressable by the CPU. The frame buffer is based on video RAM technology which ideally meets the high video bandwidth requirements of the 1024 x 800 non-interlaced display. An inexpensive and flexible solution is retained by dispensing with dedicated hardware support for image manipulation. The backbone of the Ceres computer is the memory bus, which is shared by multiple master devices. The bus is controlled by a centralized arbiter. Short response times are ensured in that the shared memory is re-allocated for every memory cycle according to fixed priorities. A default assignment strategy prevents the processor from being significantly slowed by arbitration delays. The analysis of processor-memory communication is motivated by the observed small benefit in performance gained by replacing the NS32016 CPU with the NS32032 CPU and thus doubling the memory bus bandwidth. [Measurements] show that the bus capacity of the NS32032-based Ceres is only used to a small degree. Therefore, the additional costs can hardly be justified. This contrasts with the frequently heard claims of the superiority of 32-bit computers. ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/publications/dissertations/th8431.pdf

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 5
by Søren Renner 07 Dec '12

07 Dec '12

Active Oberon is perfect for writing a parallelized multicore realtime raytracer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYSfWcW8cYA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xk5RlOkl9A On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 11:00 AM, <oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote: > Send Oberon mailing list submissions to > oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oberon-request(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oberon-owner(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re (2): Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2 (peasthope(a)shaw.ca) > 2. Re: Re (2): Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2 (eas lab) > 3. Anyone!!! What is LEO?? (Duke Normandin) > 4. Re: Anyone!!! What is LEO?? (Jan Verhoeven) > 5. Re: Anyone!!! What is LEO?? (Duke Normandin) > 6. Re: Anyone!!! What is LEO?? (Bob Walkden) > 7. Active objects (Douglas G. Danforth) > 8. Re: Anyone!!! What is LEO?? (Duke Normandin) > 9. Re: Active objects (Duke Normandin) > 10. Re: Active objects (Felix Friedrich) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 07:14:54 -0800 > From: peasthope(a)shaw.ca > Subject: [Oberon] Re (2): Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2 > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Message-ID: <171057734.29622.26589(a)cantor.invalid> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > From: Soren_Renner <soren.renner(a)gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:27:24 +0000 > > Join the 3rd millenium and use AOS though -- both of you! > > OK, you've motivated me for another time investment. > Do you use the AOS graphical interface? Do you run the > Oberon application or process in AOS? > > My most recent foray was to put UnixAos on the OLPC XO-1.5. > On the little screen, text is too small to read. Next I can install > it natively and try increasing the font size system wide. > > Apart from support for USB and better networking capabilities, > what are the most significant advantages of AOS over NO in > your view? > > As you suggested months back, I installed xmonad on > the Debian system and got a menu band across the top > of the screen. Couldn't get a terminal window open. > > I don't ignore your advices. Just slow plodding > through the details. > > Regards, ... Peter E. > > -- > 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 > Tel +13606390202 Bcc: peasthope at shaw.ca http://carnot.yi.org/ > "http://members.shaw.ca/peasthope/index.html#Itinerary " > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 22:32:19 +0200 > From: eas lab <lab.eas(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Re (2): Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 2 > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: > < > CAN3-DLE08sF_rrxFEmDnh-Ndr41XFsoAoE6zpBBcY2oXDkBRbw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > peasthope(a)shaw.ca wrote:-- > > My most recent foray was to put UnixAos on the OLPC XO-1.5. > > On the little screen, text is too small to read. Next I can install > > it natively and try increasing the font size system wide. > > Most linux: X can step the global-magnification. > What WinManager do you use with Debian? > I've moved from the RedHat-family [Mandrake, FedoraCore] > back to Slackware, and blackbox/fluxbox is beutifully compact > and fast compared to the default KDE-4, which is a monster. > > I'm expecting to receive 2 Raspberry Pi soon; one with the > default Debian installed. But if can't install the superior > text editor/s of ETHO, the system is half-lame for me. > > > Apart from support for USB and better networking capabilities, > > what are the most significant advantages of AOS over NO in > > your view? > > That's exactly the RIGHT question to ask. > > I've got a 500GB Toshiba USB2/3 /dev/sda for backup. > > Right now I'm in LEO, editing your Mail.Text which I received via > the same old familiar ETHO: TextMail utility from the 90's. > LEO has the old look & feel. > > The main difference is that LEO handles full PATH designated files. > So that eg: > EditTools.OpenUnix /mnt/toshiba/usr/local/speech_tools/config.log > opens an ETHO TextFrame with the file on the Toshiba-USB-drive. > I don't know how. But I suspect that LEO just <hooks into some linux > socket>. > > Remember *nix is magic. > So imagine what it's like having multiple N-O terminals, > where EACH one can access all the files that *nix can access, > and in 3 formats: ETHO, *nix, DOS. > > One advantage of opening LEOs in differnt dirs, is that if > you want to work on 4 texts in that DIR, eg: > ->System.Directory /mnt/toshiba/usr/local/speech_tools/* > /mnt/toshiba/usr/local/speech_tools/configure.in > /mnt/toshiba/usr/local/speech_tools/install-sh > /mnt/toshiba/usr/local/speech_tools/HelloTst.cc > /mnt/toshiba/usr/local/speech_tools/config.status > > These are inconvenient long-path-names, because I'm > accessing them from: > -> System.CurrentDirectory =`pwd` which is: /usr/local/bin/LEO > > But if I opened a new LEO, in /mnt/toshiba/usr/local/speech_tools/ > then the filenames would be more managable as: > configure.in install-sh HelloTst.cc config.status > > Besides if you're working on 6 projects, each in their own dir-tree, > it's better to have a separate LEO for each project, based in the > relevant dir-tree. > > So I use LEO to do a lot of my linux work. > > Could your substitute for VNC allow direct pasting from a `man` > to an ETHO-text, like this Mail.Text? > > And can A4 do so? > > == Chris Glur. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 14:01:17 -0700 > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: [Oberon] Anyone!!! What is LEO?? > To: Oberon List <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <20121206140117.5d3fdeb0@lubuntu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Anyone but Chris Glur that is!!! > > Pleeaaaaase somebody clue us in as to what/who LEO is?? > > We KNOW it has to do with NO and Linux - but WHAT exactly?? > > Just curious!! > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 22:48:07 +0100 > From: Jan Verhoeven <jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Anyone!!! What is LEO?? > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <201212062248.07218.jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Thursday 06 December 2012 22:01:17 Duke Normandin wrote: > > Anyone but Chris Glur that is!!! > > > > Pleeaaaaase somebody clue us in as to what/who LEO is?? > > > > We KNOW it has to do with NO and Linux - but WHAT exactly?? > > > > Just curious!! > > I'm on this list now for many years and I still haven't got a clue! > > Linux Extended Oberon might be something but what IS it? > > -- > Met vriendelijke groeten, > > Jan Verhoeven > http://www.verhoeven272.nl > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 16:17:44 -0700 > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Anyone!!! What is LEO?? > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Message-ID: <20121206161744.000062dc@unknown> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 22:48:07 +0100 > Jan Verhoeven <jan(a)verhoeven272.nl> wrote: > > > On Thursday 06 December 2012 22:01:17 Duke Normandin wrote: > > > Anyone but Chris Glur that is!!! > > > > > > Pleeaaaaase somebody clue us in as to what/who LEO is?? > > > > > > We KNOW it has to do with NO and Linux - but WHAT exactly?? > > > > > > Just curious!! > > > > I'm on this list now for many years and I still haven't got a > > clue! > > > > Linux Extended Oberon might be something but what IS it? > > > Good One!!! :) > > I've been trying as many "permutations and combinations" as I can > dream of without getting too bored! Not much success!! > > To top it all off, Wirth, Mathias et al, have all moved to Luna! > Know where *that* is?? lol ... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 23:29:03 -0000 > From: "Bob Walkden" <bob(a)web-options.com> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Anyone!!! What is LEO?? > To: "'ETH Oberon and related systems'" <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <016201cdd409$7a6117b0$6f234710$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > From: Duke Normandin [mailto:dukeofperl@ml1.net] > > > > > > Good One!!! :) > > > > I've been trying as many "permutations and combinations" as I can dream > > of without getting too bored! Not much success!! > > > > To top it all off, Wirth, Mathias et al, have all moved to Luna! > > Know where *that* is?? lol ... > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJYxHFyXV70> > > B > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2012 16:27:04 -0800 > From: "Douglas G. Danforth" <danforth(a)greenwoodfarm.com> > Subject: [Oberon] Active objects > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <50C137D8.4010606(a)greenwoodfarm.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Folks, > I only poked at AOS some years ago. Its based on Active Objects, right? > If so, how many of you actually use that feature of the language/system? > Does it make for a significant difference (in any aspect)? > > Best regards, > Doug Danforth > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 17:37:49 -0700 > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Anyone!!! What is LEO?? > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Message-ID: <20121206173749.00005de7@unknown> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 23:29:03 +0000 > Bob Walkden <bob(a)web-options.com> wrote: > > > > From: Duke Normandin [mailto:dukeofperl@ml1.net] > > > > > > > > > Good One!!! :) > > > > > > I've been trying as many "permutations and combinations" as I > > > can dream of without getting too bored! Not much success!! > > > > > > To top it all off, Wirth, Mathias et al, have all moved to Luna! > > > Know where *that* is?? lol ... > > > > > > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJYxHFyXV70> > > > An old Jonathan King song much performed by various artists!! Loved > it then, still do now!! That link is blocked here in Canada. :( cuz > I liked Jan & Dean too!! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 17:42:44 -0700 > From: Duke Normandin <dukeofperl(a)ml1.net> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Active objects > To: oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch > Message-ID: <20121206174244.00003b78@unknown> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2012 16:27:04 -0800 > "Douglas G. Danforth" <danforth(a)greenwoodfarm.com> wrote: > > > Folks, > > I only poked at AOS some years ago. Its based on Active Objects, > > right? If so, how many of you actually use that feature of the > > language/system? Does it make for a significant difference (in > > any aspect)? > > I tried it! Everything I touched in it seemed to be broken, or > half-done half-baked. > > The web browser was painfully slow, etc etc > > It a nice toy, IMHO, that`s it! that`s all! > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 08:59:05 +0100 > From: Felix Friedrich <felix.friedrich(a)inf.ethz.ch> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Active objects > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > Message-ID: <50C1A1C9.10405(a)inf.ethz.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed > > > I tried it! Everything I touched in it seemed to be broken, or > > half-done half-baked. > > > > The web browser was painfully slow, etc etc > > > > It a nice toy, IMHO, that`s it! that`s all! > > > Duke, > > you should not forget that A2, or AOS as it was called previously, was a > research OS in the first place. A2, running on Active Oberon, features > multi-threaded (multi-core / multi-processor) applications. The kernel > is as small as can be for a multi-core environment. No heavyweight > processes, only fast context switches etc. > > Things have progressed meanwhile. A2 and Active Oberon (and the newest > programming model successor in use for software-hardware co-design > called "Active Cells" ) are in use now in both, education and industry. > > You are right about the web-server. It is neither particularly fast, nor > is it maintained. I never use it. > > I will neither try to defend A2 or Active Oberon here, nor will I try to > persuade anyone to using it. Enough things to do on the forefront and > too little time for service. > > Regards > Felix > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > End of Oberon Digest, Vol 104, Issue 5 > ************************************** >

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