- Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

None
by None 04 Nov '26

04 Nov '26

clear, important and appropriate to this discussion. Based on the work that I did in making the ISO_9660 compatible file system, I envision that a change to the file name scanner to include the "/" character in a file name would allow the command in the example to execute, and to give the results described, on a "flat" file system. Moreover, it would give additional power. I have some objections to this solution. You may also object to this solution. Can you explain why? From: "Ghost in the Machine" <cangelich(a)famvid.com> | > Let me explore the following user interface scenario. | > | > 1. A command of the nature | > System.Directories eMail/Y02/July/* | > produces list of file names that the user named and saved from email | > received in July 2002. | > | > Is this the sort of thing you are missing? | | Don't be patronizing. | | I want to be able to separate sets of files into subdirectories | not clump them all together in one huge directory. MSDOS | v2.1 had subdirectories - did you notice that? | |

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None
by None 04 Nov '26

04 Nov '26

Philosophical Foundation 1. I want to make money and Oberon has a mix of novelty and completeness that may work. 2. I like Oberon and want to grow the user base to make its existance more assured. 3. I think society would be safer if software were based on well engineered open sourced systems. An open source, high quality, reliable operating system based on modules that is supported "commercially", and a sound educational program reinforce this foundation. | Aubrey, | | mcintosh(a)vima.austin.tx.us wrote: | .... | I believe a gentle and firm coordination of what already exists | can lead to a low overhead, low maintanence system that is useful | to a large number of individuals. I wish to avoid the opacity of | Microsofts Window's and its bloat. Openness is key. A small organization | lowers its operating expenses and keeps the cost to the consumer down. | ... > where the young become exposed to ... I remember the day I asked the old men how long it took them to get used to bi-focals, and *I really cared* what their answer was.

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None
by None 04 Nov '26

04 Nov '26

1. The CD boot code. 2. A common network card driver. 3. A basic VGA driver, and advanced installer support. 4. Some type of file storage ability, whether RAMdisk, floppy, or perhaps FAT support. Diskless would probably be advantageous. 5. Attention to the sections of ECMA-119 and related documents that speak to multi-hardware boot environment support in CD-ROMs. All of these additional components other than 5 seem to be available in the Oberon community today, principally in the S3/ETH/Native/Bluebottle setting. Why V4 and not Bluebottle? 1. I have produced an entire doctoral dissertation using V4 for the entire production environment: data analysis, and document processing. I can speak with confidence and authority that it is stable and suitable. I have not heard a similar application claim from the S3 side (listening ...) 2. Bluebottle, on the face of it, it is not "bulletproof." Interesting, yes. Important, yes. Receiving much of my time, yes. Attractive because of color and motion, yes. Bootable from CD-ROM as is, yes. Suitable for mass distribution? What else is nice, given that a bootable system is demonstrated? 1. I am convinced that a 50 Mb download is a very large "activation barrier" that prevents more experimental use of Oberon I would make the boot core of the system contain a "net files" module. This 80-100 Kb core could be downloaded in a very short time, and pull in additional modules to local storage on an as needed basis. Subsequent boots would find an increasing inventory of relevant files on local storage. Individual files instead of a single image would be on well known distribution servers. With clever design, version updates would be painless using this incremental, intelligent transfer. 2. Micro-notary of files using PGP and the web of trust would mitigate against viruses. 3. CD-ROM archival is nice. I would like to explore an architecture that allows a first or new track to be written to the CD-ROM from the local storage at any moment in time. Mark the files on local storage for deletion on demand.

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[EXT] Re: Potential New Approach to Implement Instance-Centered OOP in Oberon-07
by Andreas Pirklbauer 04 Nov '26

04 Nov '26

It is perhaps worth noting that, during compilation, the compiler's symbol table is built while processing declarations, whereas symbol files are written at the end of the compilation process, when all forward references have been resolved in the symbol table. One possible approach, therefore - which is in fact already implemented in Project Oberon 2013 - is to structure the symbol file such that each unique type reference always precedes its corresponding type description. This arrangement is possible even in the presence of forward or cyclic dependencies. The principle is that the linear description of an enclosing object P may open a "parenthesis" enclosing the complete description of a component object R (such as a record referenced by a pointer type, a record field within a record, or a parameter of a procedure type). Once the parenthesis is closed, the description of P resumes. Importantly, if the description of R in turn refers back to P, the reference number assigned to P is used, thereby resolving the cyclic dependency without fixups. For example, the forward pointer declaration TYPE P = POINTER TO R; R = RECORD x, y: P END can by linearized in the symbol file as follows: TYP [#14 P form = PTR [#15 R form = REC [^9] lev = 0 size = 8 {y [^14] off = 4 x [^14] off = 0}]] Here, the pointer declaration P is assigned reference number #14, which precedes its actual type description, while the record declaration R, with reference number #15, is *embedded* in the linear description of P. This eliminates the need for fixups within symbol files. R refers back to the description of P using reference number #14. As a result, all type references in symbol files inherently take the form of *backward* references. The same technique can of course be applied if the record is anonymous, as in TYPE P = POINTER TO RECORD x, y: P END The only difference is that no object node for R is written to the symbol file. The underlying principle, however, remains the same. For further details, see the EOS documentation. There, however, pointers must always point to named types. Having to declare R as a separate type may be considered somewhat inconvenient, but seems acceptable. > On 04.11.2026, at 06:21, Andreas Pirklbauer <andreas_pirklbauer(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On 2026-10-13 02:03, Chris Burrows wrote: > >> His reply dated 13 Mar 2017 was: > >> > >> "You are right. The identifier R0 in > >> > >> RECORD (R0) a, b: INTEGER END. > >> > >> must be a record type, and cannot be a pointer type. > >> > >> I had "simplified" this some long time ago, because pointer types in > >> this position caused severe troubles in combination with import/export., > >> And I think this "restriction" iis quite sensible. Unfortunately, the > >> diagnostic message is a bit obscure." > > > > OK, thank you for sharing the clarification. I still wonder what the > > severe trouble is. > > > > /August > > I guess it's related to the problem of generating a symbol file in a single pass in the case of pointers that are forward references. You can read more in the Compiler Construction book or An Oberon Compiler for the ARM Processor (chapter 24. Import and Export), that you linked before. In the latter Wirth goes a bit deeper about it. > > Regarding what he replied to Chris, I guess with *pointer types in this position* Wirth meant using a pointer (that is a forward reference) as a base record in the record declaration. Maybe he was talking about this pathological case below: > > TYPE > P0 = POINTER TO T0; > > P1 = POINTER TO RECORD (P0) ... END; > ... > T0 = RECORD ... END; > > (Of course we are always talking about doing everything in a single pass.) > > -- > Diego Sardina

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

of characters enclosed in quote marks (")." In contrast to an Oberon string, this string can contain quote marks. One quote mark in the target string is represented by two quote marks in this notation, as in APL. This is an ugly example as Chris might mind. The name of the service is Gulf"@"Net. The user is the 7 characters !@# $%^. The password is &*()_+. NetSystem.SetUser1 "pap" "Gulf""@""Net" "!@# $%^" "&*()_+" ~ So how is this? Can anyone imagine a case where it fails? es> ... implements ... Certainly willing to try. Might need help. es> I still hope that WebDAV can help here. Interesting. I am only beginning to learn about WebDAV. Regards, Peter E. http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

satisfying their timing requirememts must be a top consideration. Once you go out of your box, you have to face these unpleasant realities. eg. CPU > ser-port > modem > telco-line > ISP > ... To talk of 'throttling back until it flies'; instead of making the timing specs comply, sounds bad ? 1. Some years ago a version of n-o stand Alone often failed to dial the modem, yet DOS and linux always dialed. 2. Here in s.africa it is know that many modems need an extra string to 'get dial-tone'. Apparently there must be a specified time between when the machine 'looks' and when dial-tone is detected. Perhaps n-o should wait ? 3. n-o V2.3.2 standalone Mail.Panel failed to connect, yet V 2.3.6 DOSbased connected. I don't know of any software update and must assume a critical timing cause. 4. I'm still trying to find out why sometimes when I get an abnormal ppp disconnect; further retries fail unless I reboot or Ctrl-Break a few times immediately after Dialer.Dial PPP Device0 ~ The need to try a few times indicates a randomness - 'the roulette ball to fall in' while the "Dialer.Dial PPP Device0" task is still busy ? By monitoring with a second n-o box, I confirm that the strings sent to the modem are OK (except that V24.Panel does not show CR nor LF - which are important). Line and modem Status-register values for good and bad conditions, are different - for latter analysis. Perhaps these differences will points to hardware handshake problems ? If none of you have these problems or even believe them, it's because you all use M$ outspOOk ! Chris Glur. -- PS. I'm using 486 40 Mhz machines.

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

> ....Sending [ATM1] > Waiting 60s for [CONNECT] {|ATD 3407501|ATM1||CONNECT} > Calling [PPPMain.StartInst PPP 2nm4nx6x@za] > ---- up to here is OK, then the following 2 lines do not occur: > End of script > IPCP is finally ready. Device opened. by software forcing a 'fail' (eg. a time out waiting for KeyBrdIn) at the various 'states' in the failure range, as indicated in the above trace; and confirming that NetSystem.SetUser <args> can/cannot re-run, will locate the problem. Ie. at which state(s) does a failure not reset/initialise, hence not allowing a new NetSystem.SetUser <args> ? Personally I don't favour this empirical method, and prefer a well understood/documented theoretical model which can be analysed. > Chris, before collecting the log you might > compile in my modification which numbers > frames. This will allow any discussion, between > you and Edgar for example, to refer to "frame n". > That should be easier than saying "Look at the > frame containing this hex string '...'". > I don't remember which module but it is > described in my PPPnotes Web page. Hacking down at the low level, without the supporting overview understanding is not recommended. I first need to get an overview. PS. this tread now deal with 3 related topics: 1. V24.Panel can't run after NetSystem.SetUser <args> runs, because of initialisation problems. 2. NetSystem.SetUser <args> can't re-run, when it fails at certain state(s) (as must be allowed for) because of initialisation problems ? 3. Maintainers/contributors need documentation re. multi-tasking for S3. -- Chris Glur. PS. Edgar uses the term "interrupt", where I say "failure". Ie. when the (serial port, modem) ppp-connection fails. Even for ones which are rare, such 'failures' must be catered for. That's the main design philosophy of the internet.

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

file you want and execute HyperDocTools.Fetch <LocalName> ~. Regards, Peter E.

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

the majority don't support this type of functionality and will always default to either IRQ3 or 4. Regards -- Jacques Eloff Department of Computer Science University of Stellenbosch http://www.cs.sun.ac.za/~eloff

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

" Note: (-5) DIV 3 = -2 but -5 DIV 3 = -(5 DIV 3) = -1 " The language wants x = (x DIV y) * y + (x MOD y) -Doug Stefan Salewski wrote: > > Hello, > > I think there is something wrong with the DIV statement. > > ========== > > MODULE StSTest; > > IMPORT Out; > > PROCEDURE Do*; > VAR > i,j,k:LONGINT; > BEGIN > Out.String("Output is:"); > Out.Ln; > i:=10; > j:=3; > k:=-(-i DIV j); > Out.Int(k,8); Out.Ln; > i:=-i; > k:=-(i DIV j); > Out.Int(k,8); Out.Ln; > END Do; > > BEGIN > END StSTest. > > StSTest.Do ~ > > Output is: > 3 > 4 > ========== > > Best regards > > Stefan Salewski > -- > Oberon(a)inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > http://www.lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon

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