- Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

about needed changes and recent updates but they are not available at any location I am aware of. This was my reason for recommending that the notes be linked at the ETH Oberon webpages using <PRE></PRE> HTML until such time as they can be collated, sorted, reformatted or whatever is required to get them into more taditional HTML webpages. The "PRE" means preformatted text and being Courier font looks like dot matrix printouts. Not pretty but people need that information in this same decade, not another millenium. ;-) Charles.Angelich DOS the Ghost in the Machine! Family And Friends wepages - Multimedia orginal stories with animation and sound, poetry, music, and photography: http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/faf Tech pages for DOS and W31 at: http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

The listing of available versions of Oberon links to various versions without a great deal of explanation as to why a new user should want one versus the other is confusing. The linking to Native seems inappropriate considering that Native is relatively obsolete. Not that Native/Beta is up-to-date but it would seem a better choice for those who intend to install a loopback (all in one FAT file) Oberon. When reading the documentation pages online each part begins to explain some portion of Oberon then gets sidetracked with exclusions for various versions. New users don't know or care about other versions and certainly don't need to be distracted by exclusions while trying to learn about their version of Oberon. It seems there was no desire to write separate up-to-date documentation for each version so that all versions are crammed together into a confusion of exceptions. Considering the diversity of file formats, and changes of command names I think it would be wise to have separate documentation and leave out all the exclusions? Difficult enough to become comfortable with the use of a two button mouse on a three button OS without being constantly reminded that whatever version you use others probably are using a different version with a different file system and different command modules. I could critique these pages line by line but I think anyone who looks at what is there objectively as a new user they would see what I see? Charles.Angelich DOS the Ghost in the Machine! Family And Friends wepages - Multimedia orginal stories with animation and sound, poetry, music, and photography: http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/faf Tech pages for DOS and W31 at: http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

clear, important and appropriate to this discussion. Based on the work that I did in making the ISO_9660 compatible file system, I envision that a change to the file name scanner to include the "/" character in a file name would allow the command in the example to execute, and to give the results described, on a "flat" file system. Moreover, it would give additional power. I have some objections to this solution. You may also object to this solution. Can you explain why? From: "Ghost in the Machine" <cangelich(a)famvid.com> | > Let me explore the following user interface scenario. | > | > 1. A command of the nature | > System.Directories eMail/Y02/July/* | > produces list of file names that the user named and saved from email | > received in July 2002. | > | > Is this the sort of thing you are missing? | | Don't be patronizing. | | I want to be able to separate sets of files into subdirectories | not clump them all together in one huge directory. MSDOS | v2.1 had subdirectories - did you notice that? | |

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

Philosophical Foundation 1. I want to make money and Oberon has a mix of novelty and completeness that may work. 2. I like Oberon and want to grow the user base to make its existance more assured. 3. I think society would be safer if software were based on well engineered open sourced systems. An open source, high quality, reliable operating system based on modules that is supported "commercially", and a sound educational program reinforce this foundation. | Aubrey, | | mcintosh(a)vima.austin.tx.us wrote: | .... | I believe a gentle and firm coordination of what already exists | can lead to a low overhead, low maintanence system that is useful | to a large number of individuals. I wish to avoid the opacity of | Microsofts Window's and its bloat. Openness is key. A small organization | lowers its operating expenses and keeps the cost to the consumer down. | ... > where the young become exposed to ... I remember the day I asked the old men how long it took them to get used to bi-focals, and *I really cared* what their answer was.

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None
by None 02 Nov '26

02 Nov '26

1. The CD boot code. 2. A common network card driver. 3. A basic VGA driver, and advanced installer support. 4. Some type of file storage ability, whether RAMdisk, floppy, or perhaps FAT support. Diskless would probably be advantageous. 5. Attention to the sections of ECMA-119 and related documents that speak to multi-hardware boot environment support in CD-ROMs. All of these additional components other than 5 seem to be available in the Oberon community today, principally in the S3/ETH/Native/Bluebottle setting. Why V4 and not Bluebottle? 1. I have produced an entire doctoral dissertation using V4 for the entire production environment: data analysis, and document processing. I can speak with confidence and authority that it is stable and suitable. I have not heard a similar application claim from the S3 side (listening ...) 2. Bluebottle, on the face of it, it is not "bulletproof." Interesting, yes. Important, yes. Receiving much of my time, yes. Attractive because of color and motion, yes. Bootable from CD-ROM as is, yes. Suitable for mass distribution? What else is nice, given that a bootable system is demonstrated? 1. I am convinced that a 50 Mb download is a very large "activation barrier" that prevents more experimental use of Oberon I would make the boot core of the system contain a "net files" module. This 80-100 Kb core could be downloaded in a very short time, and pull in additional modules to local storage on an as needed basis. Subsequent boots would find an increasing inventory of relevant files on local storage. Individual files instead of a single image would be on well known distribution servers. With clever design, version updates would be painless using this incremental, intelligent transfer. 2. Micro-notary of files using PGP and the web of trust would mitigate against viruses. 3. CD-ROM archival is nice. I would like to explore an architecture that allows a first or new track to be written to the CD-ROM from the local storage at any moment in time. Mark the files on local storage for deletion on demand.

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Re (2): Modularization.
by peter＠easthope.ca 31 Oct '26

31 Oct '26

From: =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg?= <joerg.straube(a)iaeth.ch> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2026 08:25:40 +0100 > You don’t have to follow the example below. > Perhaps, it might give you an idea... Thanks Jörg Before posting yesterday I should have studied Dates more carefully. Dates.FormatDateTime is a general means to obtain the ISO and RFC formats. Next weekend or later, can try to incorporate into Mail. I need to understand better before writing source text. Thanks! ... P.L. -- mobile: +1 778 951 5147 Bcc: peter at e a s t h o p e dot c a projects: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:PeterEasthope

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None
by None 31 Oct '26

31 Oct '26

of characters enclosed in quote marks (")." In contrast to an Oberon string, this string can contain quote marks. One quote mark in the target string is represented by two quote marks in this notation, as in APL. This is an ugly example as Chris might mind. The name of the service is Gulf"@"Net. The user is the 7 characters !@# $%^. The password is &*()_+. NetSystem.SetUser1 "pap" "Gulf""@""Net" "!@# $%^" "&*()_+" ~ So how is this? Can anyone imagine a case where it fails? es> ... implements ... Certainly willing to try. Might need help. es> I still hope that WebDAV can help here. Interesting. I am only beginning to learn about WebDAV. Regards, Peter E. http://carnot.pathology.ubc.ca/

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None
by None 31 Oct '26

31 Oct '26

satisfying their timing requirememts must be a top consideration. Once you go out of your box, you have to face these unpleasant realities. eg. CPU > ser-port > modem > telco-line > ISP > ... To talk of 'throttling back until it flies'; instead of making the timing specs comply, sounds bad ? 1. Some years ago a version of n-o stand Alone often failed to dial the modem, yet DOS and linux always dialed. 2. Here in s.africa it is know that many modems need an extra string to 'get dial-tone'. Apparently there must be a specified time between when the machine 'looks' and when dial-tone is detected. Perhaps n-o should wait ? 3. n-o V2.3.2 standalone Mail.Panel failed to connect, yet V 2.3.6 DOSbased connected. I don't know of any software update and must assume a critical timing cause. 4. I'm still trying to find out why sometimes when I get an abnormal ppp disconnect; further retries fail unless I reboot or Ctrl-Break a few times immediately after Dialer.Dial PPP Device0 ~ The need to try a few times indicates a randomness - 'the roulette ball to fall in' while the "Dialer.Dial PPP Device0" task is still busy ? By monitoring with a second n-o box, I confirm that the strings sent to the modem are OK (except that V24.Panel does not show CR nor LF - which are important). Line and modem Status-register values for good and bad conditions, are different - for latter analysis. Perhaps these differences will points to hardware handshake problems ? If none of you have these problems or even believe them, it's because you all use M$ outspOOk ! Chris Glur. -- PS. I'm using 486 40 Mhz machines.

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None
by None 31 Oct '26

31 Oct '26

> ....Sending [ATM1] > Waiting 60s for [CONNECT] {|ATD 3407501|ATM1||CONNECT} > Calling [PPPMain.StartInst PPP 2nm4nx6x@za] > ---- up to here is OK, then the following 2 lines do not occur: > End of script > IPCP is finally ready. Device opened. by software forcing a 'fail' (eg. a time out waiting for KeyBrdIn) at the various 'states' in the failure range, as indicated in the above trace; and confirming that NetSystem.SetUser <args> can/cannot re-run, will locate the problem. Ie. at which state(s) does a failure not reset/initialise, hence not allowing a new NetSystem.SetUser <args> ? Personally I don't favour this empirical method, and prefer a well understood/documented theoretical model which can be analysed. > Chris, before collecting the log you might > compile in my modification which numbers > frames. This will allow any discussion, between > you and Edgar for example, to refer to "frame n". > That should be easier than saying "Look at the > frame containing this hex string '...'". > I don't remember which module but it is > described in my PPPnotes Web page. Hacking down at the low level, without the supporting overview understanding is not recommended. I first need to get an overview. PS. this tread now deal with 3 related topics: 1. V24.Panel can't run after NetSystem.SetUser <args> runs, because of initialisation problems. 2. NetSystem.SetUser <args> can't re-run, when it fails at certain state(s) (as must be allowed for) because of initialisation problems ? 3. Maintainers/contributors need documentation re. multi-tasking for S3. -- Chris Glur. PS. Edgar uses the term "interrupt", where I say "failure". Ie. when the (serial port, modem) ppp-connection fails. Even for ones which are rare, such 'failures' must be catered for. That's the main design philosophy of the internet.

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None
by None 31 Oct '26

31 Oct '26

file you want and execute HyperDocTools.Fetch <LocalName> ~. Regards, Peter E.

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