April 2016 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

System.ShowModules output format
by Srinivas Nayak 17 Apr '16

17 Apr '16

Dear All, I see System.ShowModules lists all modules loaded in the system in chronological order. Ex, ... ... PCI 3972 2 Disks 4706 4 Kernel 42684 29 Total 62001 47 Here what do the numbers mean? 1st column, the loaded module . 2nd column, total bytes consumed by this? 3rd column, modules importing this? 3rd column in Total? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon RS232 - file exchange with Linux / OLR for RPI
by thomas.kral＠email.cz 16 Apr '16

16 Apr '16

Peter, Thanks so much, I will test and let you know. Meanwhile I managed to transfer the whole Bitmaps.Mod right from the shell, # longer files >255 could be split into blocks $ split -b255 Bitmaps.Mod # with $FF length byte inserted to the start of each $ for f in [a-z]*; do echo -ne \\xff | cat - $f > $f.1; done # length byte of the last block <255 must be adjusted by hand # send REC and file name terminated with NULL! $ echo -ne \\x21'Bitmaps.Mod'\\0 > /dev/ttyUSB1 # copy all blocks in a loop for f in *.1; do echo $f; cp $f /dev/ttyUSB1; done Note after each packet sent, ACK should be waited for, this may not be easy to do in shell. Tomas ---------- Původní zpráva ---------- Od: Peter Matthias Komu: thomas.kral(a)email.cz Datum: 3. 4. 2016 17:31:09 Předmět: Fwd: Re: [Oberon] Oberon RS232 - file exchange with Linux / OLR for RPI Hi Thomas, since default parameters seem to work for you, I made a q&d implementation. You will first have to open /dev/ttyUSB1 to get the port No. Regards, Peter -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: [Oberon] Oberon RS232 - file exchange with Linux / OLR for RPI Datum: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 15:41:03 +0200 Von: thomas.kral(a)email.cz Antwort an: ETH Oberon and related systems An: Peter Matthias Kopie (CC): ETH Oberon and related systems Peter, Thanks for explaining now I see. I have RISC5 (FPGA Project Oberon 2013) connected to RPI running OLR. I wanted to exchange files using PCLink1 task at RISC5 end with ORC master/client on RPI end, as ORC is part of the project. Meanwhile I managed my 1st file exchange right from Linux shell, file is <255 bytes in length = 1 block. It took me a very long time to discover that name is NULL terminated, I was putting leading length byte in front first. # send REC and file name terminated with NULL! $ echo -ne \\x21'Test.txt'\\0 > /dev/ttyUSB1 # copy one block <255 over line $ cp Test.txt /dev/ttyUSB1 On Oberon screen I got .. receiving Test.txt done So far so good -:) Peter, is there a way to compile in modules for OLR/RPI to support /dev/ttyUSBn Could you please advise? This would allow to run ORC master client, which really is the way to exchange files and also boot RISC5 over RS232 as documented in the project. Many thanks so far Tomas ---------- Původní zpráva ---------- Od: Peter Matthias Komu: thomas.kral(a)email.cz, ETH Oberon and related systems Datum: 3. 4. 2016 14:56:46 Předmět: Re: [Oberon] Oberon RS232 - file exchange with Linux / OLR for RPI Hi Tomas, I was only following this thread half way. Turns out, you want to connect something via V24 to OLR. Well, V24 like Centronics and network only are dummy modules needed to compile other Modules. So you currently have to transfer files via Linux. Peter Am 03.04.2016 um 10:49 schrieb thomas.kral(a)email.cz: > Chris, > > Thank you, this helps. > > In V24.Mod I can see port number is defined as CONST > > portno = 1 but also as pno = 1 > > I tried recompiling with other values, same thing. > > On RPI as on Pepino, serial ports are configured over USB channels. > I power Pepino from RPI using uUSB cable, it carries the data link as well. > > /dev/ttyUSB0 - configured as COM1 > /dev/ttyUSB1 - configured as COM2 > > Changing the port number to 2 does not help. > > Also I noticed OLR provides two modules: > V24.Mod and OLR.V24.Mod - portable, there is also ConfigV24.Mod. > > It seems ports are hooked to IRQs in nonportable version assuming x86 platform? > > I am putting Peter Matthias in cc, in hope he may be of help as far as OLR goes. > So the question might be, how to enable serial ports in OLR/RPI ports? > > Many thanks so far > Tomas > > ---------- Původní zpráva ---------- > Od: Chris Burrows > Komu: ETH Oberon and related systems > Datum: 3. 4. 2016 9:52:51 > Předmět: Re: [Oberon] Oberon RS232 - file exchange with Linux > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: thomas.kral(a)email.cz [mailto:thomas.kral@email.cz] >> Sent: Sunday, 3 April 2016 4:49 PM >> To: chris(a)cfbsoftware.com; ETH Oberon and related systems >> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Oberon RS232 - file exchange with Linux >> >> On LNO - OLR for RPI, I got ... >> >> OCR.Open - open V24, error=2 >> OCR.Send Test.txt - connection not open >> OCR.TestReq - I got 0 (zero reply) >> > > Look up error 2 in the source code of your Linux version of V24.Mod. In the Windows version of V24.Mod the CONST error definitions include: > > NoSuchPort* = 2; > > If that is the same for you, check which port you are using in ORC. Make sure it corresponds to the RS232 port on your PC that you have connected to the Pepino board. > > Regards, > Chris > > CFB Software > http://www.astrobe.com/RISC5 > > > -- > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > -- Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon

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Essential facility missing.
by eas lab 16 Apr '16

16 Apr '16

I often ask myself: "what am I doing wrong? How do others manage?" If you've got a directory containing 222 files, that you were working with yesterday: why would you want the dir-listing to be sorted alphabetically, instead of <stack-like> by recency? When you put sugar in your coffee, it entails 3 items: sugar-bowl, teaspoon, coffee-cup. Are illiterates who can't sort the 3 items alphabetically, unable to do the task? Even an insect that takes food down its hole, uses the stack-based method: * bring the food to near the hole and leave it, to free up fighting ability; * go to the hole to check that it's not occupied; * go back to fetch the food; * enter the hole with the food. If people are working with 4-files, surely they don't identify the files by their alphabetic ordering?! They associate some aspect of the characters-in-the-name with a concept. For me: color is the most direct association mechanism. ML takes <the redundancy of names> to its logical conclusion: each expression is just known as "it". So with 'piping systems', as the data is transformed "it" doesn't need names at each stage. The (n-1)th "it" goes-in and the (n)th "it" comes out. Re. the economy of effort via piping: if ETHO hadn't stuck with their absurd date format, you could do: SYS:*\d == SYS:A.text.gadget 29.07.2002 02:07:39 285 |RotateLeft(1,WhiteCharSeparatedTokens) ==29.07.2002 02:07:39 285 SYS:A.text.gadget |Sort == Dir Listing in recency order. How is it possible that ETHO can't do the essential <recency listing> ? System.Directory SYS:*\d == SYS:A.text.gadget 29.07.2002 02:07:39 285 SYS:ABC.bmp 06.05.2004 04:37:39 977462 System.Directory SYS:*\ft 29.07.2002 02:07:39 SYS:A.text.gadget 06.05.2004 04:37:39 SYS:ABC.bmp System.Directory SYS:*\t 29.07.2002 02:07:39 SYS:A.text.gadget 06.05.2004 04:37:39 SYS:ABC.bmp System.Directory SYS:*\f SYS:A.text.gadget SYS:ABC.bmp System.Directory SYS:*\df 29.07.2002 02:07:39 285 SYS:A.text.gadget 06.05.2004 04:37:39 977462 SYS:ABC.bmp == Chris Glur.

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Re (2): Trying to understand vertical scrolling
by peter＠easthope.ca 15 Apr '16

15 Apr '16

From: "Douglas G. Danforth" <danforth(a)greenwoodfarm.com> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 02:26:52 -0700 > There has been too much tinkering with Oberon. > Too many flavors and versions. Agreed, but ... > I would much prefer to see a site dedicated to the use of Oberon > (vanilla flavored). Which vanilla? California, Classic, Double, French? =8~) I prefer NO vanilla. Not "no vanilla" of course. I'm partial to vanilla too. Bugs exist and bug fixing isn't tinkering. And there are still sharp corners to smooth. The differing scrolling behaviours of Edit and ET for example. Introductory documentation should mention only ET and not Edit. No sense in trying to teach module extension before a Text larger than a viewer can be read. Also, new hardware appears. Touchscreens weren't ubiquitous in Ceres days. The work of Andreas is likely to be helpful or essential to a touchscreen interface. Bravo Andreas! Regards, ... Lyall E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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System V5 - Oberon Strings Compiler Pattern
by Tomas Kral 15 Apr '16

15 Apr '16

Hi, I am still reading PO.Applications, chapters on Compiler. Looking at strings sample code pattern: BEGIN s0 := "ABCDEF"; ... ADD R0 SB 0 @s0 ADD R1 SB 64 @"ABCDEF" LDR R2 R1 0 ADD R1 R1 4 STR R2 R0 0 ADD R0 R0 4 ASR R2 R2 24 test for 0X BNE -6 ... My understanding is that strings are copied/assigned by 4 bytes (long words) at a time in a loop that ends when 0X (NULL) is found. This may also impose Strings of even lengths may have to be padded with 0X..0X on long word boundary. Correct? This came as a surprise to me as I remember from University days about Pascal/Modula strings, having a length byte in front. Many thanks. -- Tomas Kral <thomas.kral(a)email.cz>

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Have MenuInputTablets confirmed ETHO's TUI?
by eas lab 14 Apr '16

14 Apr '16

I see the public inputting to their tablets via: 1. see the menu; 2. select from what is seen. This is how ETHO works; but never became popular. Will these new users, in future, dislike the idea of using a computer by looking up-and-down [like a chicken] to see the display and the keybrd alternatively? A stenographer or 'typist' who doesn't need to access all the extra keys, which computing has introduced, since the original optimum keybrd-design, can operate like a skilled pianist and never need to look down at the keybrd. But with the menu/ETHO method, you can select in one-operation, what keying would need 50 operations for. So how will it evolve in our fast moving future? == Chris Glur.

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HTML.Tool Chapter2.Text
by Srinivas Nayak 14 Apr '16

14 Apr '16

Dear Friends, I thought about converting Chapter2.Text to html in NO. I tried HTML.Tool. It converts TestHTML.Text file to TestHTML.html. But it didn't convert Chapter2.Text. When it said, no html file name in text, I wrote "Chapter2.html" in the beginning of Chapter2.Text, opening it with Edit.Tool. But still html conversion doesn't work! How to proceed? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Oberon Applications - was: Trying to understand vertical scrolling
by Treutwein Bernhard 12 Apr '16

12 Apr '16

Hi Doug, From: Douglas G. Danforth [mailto:danforth@greenwoodfarm.com] [...] I would like to see the applications that have been generated using Oberon. What companies are and have been using Oberon. The size of an application, as to the complexity that it addresses. yes that would be very interesting. But I also think that there is no need to create yet another place to store such information. I suggest to add a section "Applications written in Oberon or some of its dialects" in Wikipedia, i.e. there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(programming_language) I personally see also in Component Pascal an Oberon dialect. The step from Oberon-L, which was the name of the language before its last evolutionary change, to Component Pascal was not a very large one. First application, which come immediately to my mind are: OpenBugs (http://www.openbugs.net/w/FrontPage) and its precursor WinBugs (http://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/software/bugs/the-bugs-project-winbugs/) O3-Software: http://www.o3-software.de/ Dieter Glötzel's MusicXML-to-PMX<http://icking-music-archive.org/software/htdocs/index.html> http://icking-music-archive.org/software/htdocs/index.html Regards -- Bernhard

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NO keyboard and mouse device driver
by Srinivas Nayak 12 Apr '16

12 Apr '16

Dear Friends, Which modules in NO represent keyboard and mouse device driver? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Standalone BlackBox programs was: GUI programming in Oberon.
by Treutwein Bernhard 11 Apr '16

11 Apr '16

Lars, >>> There is no way to ship a standalone exe GUI program, Wrong. Please check before you set such a statement in the wild. >How did you ship an exe standalone? modify the blackbox source code, or >use a different compiler? There are several way, the basic one is documented in the "Platform-Specific Issues". BlackBox.exe itself is created with BlackBox. See "Linking BlackBox Applications" in the Document mentioned above. Moreover you can pack a complete filesystem in the exe, see <installed directory>/Dev/Spec/PackedFiles.odc -- Bernhard >-----Original Message----- >From: Lars [mailto:noreply@z505.com] >Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:36 AM >To: ETH Oberon and related systems >Subject: Re: [Oberon] GUI programming in Oberon. > >On Sat, February 27, 2016 8:54 pm, Douglas G. Danforth wrote: >> On 2/27/2016 7:07 PM, Lars wrote: >> >>> There is no way to ship a standalone exe GUI program, >>> >> Not true. I have written a number of .exe programs developed in >> BlackBox for >> paying customers. > >Well, you can even sell applications that run inside the blackbox >environment. > >How did you ship an exe standalone? modify the blackbox source code, or >use a different compiler?

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