April 2016 - Oberon - mailman3.inf.ethz.ch

Re: [Oberon] Trying to understand vertical scrolling
by peter＠easthope.ca 08 Apr '16

08 Apr '16

From: Srinivas Nayak <sinu.nayak2001(a)gmail.com>, Fri, 8 Apr 2016 11:36:22 +0530 > When I MR click on scroll bar of System.Text, ... Why System.Text in particular? Scrolling is according to the algorithm which presents the viewer. Open a few Texts with Edit and with ET. You will see the scrolling behaviours to be different. ET is more symmetrical. I still recommend ET rather than Edit for routine use. > I found, in Martin Reiser's book, section 2.4.3, it is written that: Won't have access to my copy until Wednesday. Let me know the page number then and I'll have a look. Regards, ... Lyall E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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oberon command sysntax
by Srinivas Nayak 08 Apr '16

08 Apr '16

Dear All, Where to find the syntax of Oberon mod.commands (in general)? For example: I want to know the syntax of FileDisks.Open. Where should I look at? -- With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Trying to understand vertical scrolling
by Andreas Pirklbauer 08 Apr '16

08 Apr '16

To obtain a more intuitive and smooth scrolling experience, you can install the modules Display, MenuViewers, TextFrames from: http://www.github.com/andreaspirklbauer/Oberon-fractional-scroll-fixed-line… Andreas ---- Srinivas Nayak sinu.nayak2001 at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 08:06:22 CEST 2016Dear All, When I MR click on scroll bar of System.Text, I see that instead of directly going to the beginning of System.text, it takes several MR clicks to reach line number 1 of System.Text I re-read the book to understand what is happening. I found, in Martin Reiser's book, section 2.4.3, it is written that: Then: - Clicking the right key scrolls to the beginning OF THE TEXT. ... The following interclick events are also defined.: ... - Interclicking the right key while pressing the middle key scrolls to the beginning OF THE DOCUMENT. I rechecked and found that interclick takes me directly to the line number 1 of System.Text. Not the (only) MR click. [In both the statement in the book, "scrolls to the beginning" is in Italics. Only difference is in the phrase "of the text" and "of the document".] Can you kindly help me understand this? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: | | | | | | | | | | | Welcome to Srinivas Nayak's Blog | | | | Welcome to Srinivas Nayak's Blog

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slight extention makes ETHO more acceptable?
by eas lab 08 Apr '16

08 Apr '16

Probably a slight extention would make the ETHO TUI interface acceptable to the normal user. And it would be a good exercise/proof if/that how easy ETHO is extendable. wily which is based on plan9's copy of ETHO is even more problematic that ETHO for piano-players/mouseaphobes. If your mouse/cursor wonders to another TextFrame while you are typing or not holding it: THAT becomes the active Frame, which will receive your next keyin. What is the most problematic aspect of mouse-based usage for keyboard based users? For me, it's perhaps the incremental saving of entered text, needing: 1. move hand to mouse and cursor to <Store Button> 2. visually relocate previous typeing position. and move mouse cursor there. What about being able to <Store the Text, in the same mode Aos/*nix/DOS/..etc as the previous Store/Load> of the Frame where the latest keyin was made? For me, as a continual mc user [from the original DOS:nc]: save means <F2>; which is 1-keystroke, with minimal interruption between keying-in.

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OLR: Browser.Showdef not working
by Srinivas Nayak 08 Apr '16

08 Apr '16

Dear Peter, I am using olr160330.tgz Browser.Showdef not working. Compiling Browser.Mod says Modules.extension not defined. Compiling Modules.Mod says new symbol file includes extension now. But Not able to reload Modules. :-( It says reference count not zero. System.State on Modules says importing = Modules, imported = Modules. Something little absurd. True that Modules can't be unloaded. Can we? Can we unload Kernel too? System.State's output also seems little confusing. Anyway, I thought, if Modules can't be unloaded at runtime, no issues. I have already compiled Browser and Modules along with new symbol files. So a System.Reboot will do the job. Excellent. It did half the job! Earlier Browser.ShowDef was generating a TRAP. Now with new Modules loaded, it says Browser imports incompatible version of Modules. extension incompatible. Now, how to proceed? With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Souce files of MinimalOberon
by Srinivas Nayak 08 Apr '16

08 Apr '16

Dear All, I want to gather Source files of MinimalOberon. - Only one display driver, may be VGA, or SVGA if that is simpler than VGA - Only one disk driver, may be IDE. - To boot, can't we do it with IDE disk driver only? I heard floppy drivers are complex. Not sure. - keyboard and mouse driver - Only one file system, may be NatFS. - Inner core of Oberon - Outer core of Oberon - Hello world application - No need of compiler, other development tools etc. I would like it to run only in qemu, for OS study and experiment. From Native.Tool, I collected the steps. We have to compile the modules. Zip them to Oberon0.zip (System.zip?) [I think, when we boot, only Oberon0.zip is unzipped. System.zip is unzipped only when we install Oberon to disk. Isn't it?] Then we do -- Installation diskette -- Configuration.DoCommands BootLinker.Link ram.bin \refs \integrate 1000H Kernel FPA Disks Diskettes OFS Files Modules OFSDiskVolumes OFSRAMVolumes OFSN2KFiles Zlib ZlibBuffers ZlibInflate ZlibReaders ZlibDeflate ZlibWriters Zip OFSCacheVolumes OFSBoot0 ~ FileDisks.Open SYS:Oberon0.Dsk 2880 80 2 18 ~ FileDisks.Open SYS:Oberon0.Dsk~ Partitions.Format SYS:Oberon0.Dsk#0 NatFS -1 ram.bin ~ FileSystem.Mount A NatFS SYS:Oberon0.Dsk ~ System.CopyFiles Oberon0.zip => A:Oberon0.zip System.zip => A:System.zip ~ System.Watch FileSystem.Unmount A Partitions.SetConfig SYS:Oberon0.Dsk#0 A00="%0DWelcome to the Native Oberon installer%0A" A01="%0DTo continue booting, enter 'c'. The screen will go blank, and after about" A02="%0Da minute, the mouse configuration program will appear." A03="%0DSee install.txt for more information.%0A" A04="%0DCurrent settings:" Init="b81200cd10bb003fb80110cd10" ~ FileDisks.Close SYS:Oberon0.Dsk ~ ~ Here I think, we can put things to disk directly and boot from disk, not from floppy. Won't it be possible? Also not sure if we can get rid of zip files and zip tools. If unzipping Oberon0.zip is somewhere hard coded in boot code, can we go without it? I shall be happy, if you can suggest which .Mod files I should collect, for this to be possible. With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Re (2): Which file saves video configuration value in NO
by peter＠easthope.ca 07 Apr '16

07 Apr '16

From: Srinivas Nayak <sinu.nayak2001(a)gmail.com>, Thu, 7 Apr 2016 20:00:03 +0530 > Partitions.GetConfig dev#part gives the config values. > Partitions.SetConfig. I should have mentioned that also. Keep a mental note that if you break the configuration so the system fails to come to working state, then the config strings are the final resort. Regards, ... Peter E. -- 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 12 Tel +1 360 639 0202 http://easthope.ca/Peter.html Bcc: peter at easthope. ca

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Which file saves video configuration value in NO
by Srinivas Nayak 07 Apr '16

07 Apr '16

Dear All, Which file in Oberon saves video configuration detail? I configured my vbox NO to vesa 2.0 800*600*8. I want to change this to vesa 2.0 1024*768*8. I thought of changing this value in some config file. If that is wrong procedure, how do i do it? -- With thanks and best regards, Yours sincerely, Srinivas Nayak Home: http://www.mathmeth.com/sn/ Blog: http://srinivas-nayak.blogspot.in/

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Re: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod
by thomas.kral＠email.cz 06 Apr '16

06 Apr '16

Joerg, I see, when updating Splines I looked at Curves and Rectangles modules, and tried to learn from the coding style. I realised that Handle really means Change, doing the message despatch. So I just renamed the method. Splines and Curves allow changing colour, while Rectangles also width. It seems to work, I can create splines, move them around the screen. Tomas ---------- Původní zpráva ---------- Od: Jörg Komu: thomas.kral(a)email.cz Datum: 6. 4. 2016 16:32:31 Předmět: RE: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod Hi Tomas Fine. Leaving out "Message.handle := Handle" could be problematic, as this is normally the main thing how you extend things in Oberon :-) A procedure "Handle" handles all messages that are supported on your new object. (mouse moves, mouse clicks, keyboard, whatever...) Normally you generate a new object as inheritance from a base object. TYPE NewObject = RECORD (BaseObject) newThings: INTEGER END; The "Handle" procedure in your new object handles all new stuff (eg. initializing newThings or so) and calls "Handle" of the base object in the end. br Jörg -----Original Message----- From: thomas.kral(a)email.cz [mailto:thomas.kral@email.cz] Sent: Mittwoch, 6. April 2016 14:52 To: Jörg Straube Cc: ETH Oberon and related systems Subject: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod Hi Joerg, I managed to recompile Graphics.Mod and GraphicFrames.Mod, so I have now .rsc files of both. Now to the Splines.Mod from Ceres-2 project. I needed to update the source slightly to go with FPGA Oberon V, perhaps similar changes to be found in Curves.Mod and Rectangles.Mod made by NW. Changes I made ... Printer related code commented out Display.ReplConstC(f, c ... => Display.ReplConst(c ... left out frame parameter Display.DotC(f, c ... => Display.Dot(c ... left out frame parameter WITH M ... DO ... replaced by ... CASE M of ... : SHORTINTEGER => INTEGER SHORT(ENTIRE()) => FLOOR() ReadFile () => ReadByte() WriteFile() => WriteByte() real assigments := 0.0; message.handle := Handle; left out added message.change := Change; I believe this handles moving objects on display It may not be perfect but it compiles and seems to be doing things. Tomas ---------- Původní zpráva ---------- Od: Jörg Straube Komu: Tomas Kral Datum: 5. 4. 2016 9:15:33 Předmět: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod If you only have the implementation file (rsc) and don't have the corresponding interface file (smb) that was used during compilation, you have to rebuild (=compile) the complete import hierarchy for your application from scratch. (in the correct order) Mix and match from different Oberon OS sources/versions is sometimes tricky :-) Jörg > Am 05.04.2016 um 09:04 schrieb Tomas Kral : > > Joerg, > > Thank you, I already am at PO.Applications, studying compiler > implementation, code patterns now, just beginning more to understand > now. > > Thing is, I wanted to recreate Graphics.smb and GraphicFrames.smb that > are missing on my RISC.img, running a compiler would produce new/old > symbols, as these are imported by Splines.Mod > > Many thanks so far. > > > -- > Tomas Kral > >> On Tue, 2016-04-05 at 08:24 +0200, Jörg Straube wrote: >> If you change the IMPLEMENTATION of module A, you only have to unload >> the module (System.Free) and can use the new implementation >> immediately as the new code will be (re)loaded dynamically. >> >> >> But If you change the INTERFACE of module A, and compile with /s, an >> new symbol file is generated. All modules importing A have to be >> recompiled as well, as the interface to A (and hence the key in the >> symbol file) changed. >> >> >> --> if you changed the interface of GraphicFrames and generated a new >> symbol file, then the module Draw has to be recompiled as it imports >> GraphicFrames (that changed). >> You might repeat this process until the whole import chain is >> satisfied. >> >> >> /s is dangerous if you dont know the import hierarchy of the module >> you changed. Only use /s if you know what you do. >> >> Jörg >> >> Anfang der weitergeleiteten E‑Mail: >> >> >>> Von: Jörg Straube >>> Datum: 5. April 2016 um 07:56:02 MESZ >>> An: ETH Oberon and related systems >>> Betreff: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod >>> >>> >>> Tomas >>> >>> >>> as a recommendation to you: Study the book(s) explaining all aspects >>> of the Oberon OS. >>> Why there are symbol files, under what conditions a new symbol file >>> is needed and what the (sometimes dangerous) /s flag is doing: >>> http://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/ProjectOberon/PO.Applications.pdf >>> chapter 12.6.2 >>> >>> Jörg >>> >>> Am 04.04.2016 um 22:59 schrieb >>> : >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I found Splines.Mod in the older Ceres-2 sources, and transferred >>>> to RISC5. >>>> I also needed to recompile Grphics.mod and GraphicFrames.Mod as >>>> their symbol .smb files were missing on RISC.img. >>>> I also needed to remove old .rsc otherwise I was getting 'bad >>>> keys' when loading DRAW application. >>>> >>>> I wish to understand why, I guess this is to do with run-time >>>> loading, can you please explain to me? >>>> >>>> I tested /s compile parameter that seems forbids a new symbol >>>> file, but my task was recreating original missing symbols based on >>>> original sources. >>>> >>>> Many thanks in advance. >>>> Tomas >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Původní zpráva ---------- >>>> Od: Jörg Straube >>>> Komu: ETH Oberon and related systems >>>> Datum: 25. 3. 2016 14:36:30 >>>> Předmět: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod >>>> >>>> Hi Tom >>>> >>>> In NativeOberon there was the drawing suite called „Leonardo“. >>>> Have a look at the source code of LeoSplines.Mod >>>> >>>> br >>>> Jörg >>>>> Am 25.03.2016 um 09:56 schrieb Tomas Kral : >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Now reading more about Draw.Tool, PO.Application chapters >>>>> describe >>>>> basic shape primitives, a line, rectangle, circle, ellipse, also >>>>> Spline >>>>> curves. >>>>> >>>>> Splines.Mod however seems missing on RISC.img, I also searched >>>>> old ETH >>>>> archives, and not found in sources there nor in Project Oberon >>>>> 2005. >>>>> >>>>> It seems left as homework for a careful reader, right? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tomas Kral >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related >>>>> systems >>>>> https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon-- >>>> Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related >>>> systems >>>> https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon >>>> -- >>>> Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related >>>> systems >>>> https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon >>>>

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Re: [Oberon] Fwd: Oberon Splines.Mod
by Tomas Kral 06 Apr '16

06 Apr '16

Joerg, Thank you, I already am at PO.Applications, studying compiler implementation, code patterns now, just beginning more to understand now. Thing is, I wanted to recreate Graphics.smb and GraphicFrames.smb that are missing on my RISC.img, running a compiler would produce new/old symbols, as these are imported by Splines.Mod Many thanks so far. -- Tomas Kral <thomas.kral(a)email.cz> On Tue, 2016-04-05 at 08:24 +0200, Jörg Straube wrote: > If you change the IMPLEMENTATION of module A, you only have to unload > the module (System.Free) and can use the new implementation > immediately as the new code will be (re)loaded dynamically. > > > But If you change the INTERFACE of module A, and compile with /s, an > new symbol file is generated. All modules importing A have to be > recompiled as well, as the interface to A (and hence the key in the > symbol file) changed. > > > --> if you changed the interface of GraphicFrames and generated a new > symbol file, then the module Draw has to be recompiled as it imports > GraphicFrames (that changed). > You might repeat this process until the whole import chain is > satisfied. > > > /s is dangerous if you dont know the import hierarchy of the module > you changed. Only use /s if you know what you do. > > Jörg > > Anfang der weitergeleiteten E‑Mail: > > > > Von: Jörg Straube <joerg.straube(a)iaeth.ch> > > Datum: 5. April 2016 um 07:56:02 MESZ > > An: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch> > > Betreff: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod > > > > > > Tomas > > > > > > as a recommendation to you: Study the book(s) explaining all aspects > > of the Oberon OS. > > Why there are symbol files, under what conditions a new symbol file > > is needed and what the (sometimes dangerous) /s flag is doing: > > http://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/ProjectOberon/PO.Applications.pdf > > chapter 12.6.2 > > > > Jörg > > > > Am 04.04.2016 um 22:59 schrieb <thomas.kral(a)email.cz> > > <thomas.kral(a)email.cz>: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I found Splines.Mod in the older Ceres-2 sources, and transferred > > > to RISC5. > > > I also needed to recompile Grphics.mod and GraphicFrames.Mod as > > > their symbol .smb files were missing on RISC.img. > > > I also needed to remove old .rsc otherwise I was getting 'bad > > > keys' when loading DRAW application. > > > > > > I wish to understand why, I guess this is to do with run-time > > > loading, can you please explain to me? > > > > > > I tested /s compile parameter that seems forbids a new symbol > > > file, but my task was recreating original missing symbols based on > > > original sources. > > > > > > Many thanks in advance. > > > Tomas > > > > > > > > > ---------- Původní zpráva ---------- > > > Od: Jörg Straube > > > Komu: ETH Oberon and related systems > > > Datum: 25. 3. 2016 14:36:30 > > > Předmět: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Splines.Mod > > > > > > Hi Tom > > > > > > In NativeOberon there was the drawing suite called „Leonardo“. > > > Have a look at the source code of LeoSplines.Mod > > > > > > br > > > Jörg > > > > Am 25.03.2016 um 09:56 schrieb Tomas Kral : > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Now reading more about Draw.Tool, PO.Application chapters > > > > describe > > > > basic shape primitives, a line, rectangle, circle, ellipse, also > > > > Spline > > > > curves. > > > > > > > > Splines.Mod however seems missing on RISC.img, I also searched > > > > old ETH > > > > archives, and not found in sources there nor in Project Oberon > > > > 2005. > > > > > > > > It seems left as homework for a careful reader, right? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Tomas Kral > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related > > > > systems > > > > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon-- > > > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related > > > systems > > > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > > -- > > > Oberon(a)lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related > > > systems > > > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon > > >

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